Help - Search - Members - Calendar
Full Version: German Invasion
Pilots For 9/11 Truth Forum > Study > Debate
Pages: 1, 2, 3
vienna

[mod edit: this thread split from "Debunking FDR Debunking" here.... http://pilotsfor911truth.org/forum/index.php?showtopic=22364]



Hi Rob

For the beginning, i am faceing some questions about...

Commander Ralph “Rotten” Kolstad
23,000 hours
27 years in the airlines
B757/767 for 13 years mostly international Captain with American Airlines.
20 years US Navy flying fighters off aircraft carriers, TopGun twice
civilian pilot flying gliders, light airplanes and warbirds
Command time in:
- N644AA (Aircraft dispatched as American 77)
- N334AA (Aircraft dispatched as American 11)

for me, i believe this CV is correct, but some people in an german forum said, tis doesnt match at all, since pilots are only to be able to fly till the age of 60. so therefor this pilot must have get his licence in the age between 13 or 18.
is it correct that pilots are only allowed to fly up to age of 60? or did this person made a calculation error? (i bet, something is wrong with the guy dont trusting that CV :-) )

further, i was facing discussuions about wether GPS was installed on 757 at AA installed or not, at 2001.
as far as i was told (and linked to boeing) boeing was able to install GPS with their FANC programm, at about 1995. for me this is not an evidence, that AA had installed GPS in their 757, but it would made it possible of course.
(althougt GPS at that time still had SA, so i dont think, civil aviation would relay on that)

so my question....did Ralph Kolstad really mentioned, that NO 757 at AA about 2001 was equiped with GPS? or was he saying, that HE was not flying with an 757 with GPS on board?

and finally, could it be, that the GPS value within the CSV file is only, because the FDR was configured to handle this value in the future? and just writing default value?
short explanation from my side...as a former programmer (5 languages) and DB admin, i can imagine, that you write default values to log files (which an FDR basically is) when a value is not present.
but for sure...i wouldnt write the value OPER !
this would mislead any investigation...instead i would expect IONOPER.....NOT SET.....NOT ACTIVE.....and so on.....

so again in short....

-does the CV of Ralph is corret in order of his experiences and years of duty?
-Ralph Kolstad really mentioned, that NO 757 at AA about 2001 was equiped with GPS? or was he saying, that HE was not flying with an 757 with GPS on board?
-could it be, that the GPS value within the CSV file is only, because the FDR was configured to handle this value in the future? and just writing default value?

thanks a lot for some clearification of this.
it would help me a lot to go back to my german forum to discuss further.....
rob balsamo
Hi vienna... welcome to the forum.

QUOTE (vienna @ Jul 8 2013, 01:16 PM) *
-does the CV of Ralph is corret in order of his experiences and years of duty?


Many pilots remain on reserve status with the military while flying for the airlines. For example, our airline alone had many pilots called back to active status during the Iraq and Afghan wars after 9/11. So, Capt Kolstad's years in service and years at the airlines overlap. They are not consecutive. The years are concurrent.

QUOTE
-Ralph Kolstad really mentioned, that NO 757 at AA about 2001 was equiped with GPS? or was he saying, that HE was not flying with an 757 with GPS on board?


Correct. 757's at American were not equipped with GPS in 2001. They used Inertial Reference Systems as their primary use for navigation.

QUOTE
-could it be, that the GPS value within the CSV file is only, because the FDR was configured to handle this value in the future? and just writing default value?


We do not speculate. The fact of the matter is that the data contains GPS as OPERational. American 757's were not equipped with GPS. All others are free to speculate as to their bias. But the facts remain.

Bottom line, there is no evidence linking the data to American Airlines 757 tail number N644AA. And in fact the data does not support an impact with the Pentagon.


Hope this helps.

vienna
QUOTE (rob balsamo @ Jul 8 2013, 01:34 PM) *
Hi vienna... welcome to the forum.



Many pilots remain on reserve status with the military while flying for the airlines. For example, our airline alone had many pilots called back to active status during the Iraq and Afghan wars after 9/11. So, Capt Kolstad's years in service and years at the airlines overlap. They are not consecutive. The years are concurrent.



Correct. 757's at American were not equipped with GPS in 2001. They used Inertial Reference Systems as their primary use for navigation.



We do not speculate. The fact of the matter is that the data contains GPS as OPERational. American 757's were not equipped with GPS. All others are free to speculate as to their bias. But the facts remain.

Bottom line, there is no evidence linking the data to American Airlines 757 tail number N644AA. And in fact the data does not support an impact with the Pentagon.


Hope this helps.



thanks a lot.....this helps me believing on the fact....something was not investigated correctly.

regards
ienna
vienna
We do not speculate. The fact of the matter is that the data contains GPS as OPERational. American 757's were not equipped with GPS. All others are free to speculate as to their bias. But the facts remain.

sorry, i dont want to speculate also.....but for me, as a former programmer, if i would write a value to a system, not present/installed currently, with value OPER, my former teacher would throw my diplom out of the window :-)
rob balsamo
QUOTE (vienna @ Jul 8 2013, 02:10 PM) *
sorry, i dont want to speculate also.....but for me, as a former programmer, if i would write a value to a system, not present/installed currently, with value OPER, my former teacher would throw my diplom out of the window :-)


Exactly... smile.gif

I went over to the German forum you are discussing (I saw the link in our hit referrals).... some people are in serious denial over there. Dont waste too much of your time.... there are just some people you cannot reach. They will make every possible excuse they can to hold onto their beliefs despite any amount of evidence. It's called Cognitive Dissonance.

Good luck!
vienna
sorry for bringing trouble on this forum...but its in a way really important to me, to find out if Ralph is a lier (thats what they used to say in the german forum) or not.
basically i tend to trust people, exposing themself with names and history...so i salute to him....and hope this here is not the end.

regards
vienna
vienna
what do you say to this statemant?

DME is only accurate itself to 0.1 nautical miles (185 meters).According to the wiki article on VOR"The predictable accuracy of the VOR system is ±1.4°. However, test data indicate that 99.94% of the time a VOR system has less than ±0.35° of error."Yes, since even consumer grade GPS will be accurate to within a few meters it would be more accurate.I could easily see a pilot correcting his INS once at crusing altitude and all major course changes are done but only if its gone out by significantly more than the DME/VOR accuracy itself, if he is using that system to recalibrate the INS. If he had his own personal GPS(there were none installed on the a/c) he could use it but I would think that would be a no-no. Doesn't it have to be an approved instrument before a pilot is allowed to use it, especially on a commercial passenger flight?Didn't PfT make a lot of noise previously about the DME data on the plane saying that it showed the plane was not where the 'official story' put it? I seem to recall them touting DME accuracy until being schooled about it here.If Dulles has a VOR/DME located on the airfield or within a mile or so then its possible that an accurate VOR/DME reading would be possible(to within the accuracy of that system) while the a/c is taxing.However some VOR/DMEs are several miles from the nearest airfeilds and since VHF is line of sight they would not be picked up on the ground

i got from an expert? or not?
its not my word, staement...its someone obviously copied from another source
rob balsamo
QUOTE (vienna @ Jul 8 2013, 02:55 PM) *
sorry for bringing trouble on this forum...but its in a way really important to me, to find out if Ralph is a lier (thats what they used to say in the german forum) or not.
basically i tend to trust people, exposing themself with names and history...so i salute to him....and hope this here is not the end.

regards
vienna



I had a feeling that was coming...lol.

Here are Capt Kolstad's credentials from the FAA.



Anyone can look it up at faa.gov.

As far as the GPS.

N644AA was manufactured in 1991. GPS was not operational till 1994 mainly for Military use. A signal suitable for Civilian use wasn't established until May 1, 2000 and even then it wasn't all that accurate until 2004. This can all be verified on the web.

American Airlines did not install GPS's in their entire fleet nor train all their pilots to use GPS within a little over a year, May 1, 2000 - Sept 11, 2001. Think of the expense and logistical nightmare, not to mention it wasn't even approved for use of navigation by the FAA. Why would any airline waste so much money? They wouldn't. They didn't, they had perfectly good and working Inertial Reference Systems.

American 757's were not GPS equipped in 2001. Anyone who doubts this can call American Airlines themselves. But they won't, because then their whole world will come crumbling down. Again, some people you just can't reach. They fear the truth.

Some people claim "it is not proven there wasn't a GPS, so that means there must be a GPS!!!111!!". A classic argument from ignorance fallacy.

There isn't a list that exists which will show what an airplane is NOT equipped with. The Equipment list shows what an aircraft has installed on board. And there is no way such an equipment list will be published on the web, not only for proprietary reasons, but also for safety and security.

So, if they think Ralph is lying (and Capt Doug Johnson... he is also an American Airlines pilot in our organization), tell them to get the equipment list and prove that N644AA had a GPS installed while showing evidence that the data is linked to N644AA.

As it stands now, there is no evidence linking the data to N644AA and in fact a growing mountain of evidence to the contrary.

Those who feel a GPS must have been installed just because there isn't an official document from American Airlines stating there wasn't one installed, must also believe in Santa Claus since there is no evidence showing he doesn't exist and that NORAD tracks him each year.... smile.gif
rob balsamo
QUOTE (vienna @ Jul 8 2013, 03:20 PM) *
i got from an expert? or not?


He is asking questions and quoting from wiki, so clearly not an expert... .nor even a pilot.

Also, an INS/IRS cannot be "re-calibrated" in flight. It has to be done while stationary, on the ground, with known lat/long coordinates of your Gate position.... just another indication that the quote you are looking at is from someone who hasn't the first clue about aviation.
vienna
Also, an INS/IRS cannot be "re-calibrated" in flight. It has to be done while stationary, on the ground, with known lat/long coordinates of your Gate position.... just another indication that the quote you are looking at is from someone who hasn't the first clue about aviation.

exactley as i have to do in xplane :-)
entering the coordinates into IRS after align is finished.(depends on the plane...sone takes it via FMS while writing the route...some take it after align)
just to be sure, its near real life :-)
vienna
Warum steht in dem editierbaren File der Wahrheitspiloten dann OPER und im nicht editierbaren amtlichen Bericht nicht?

Wo sind die Daten der Wahrheitspiloten verifiziert? Wo sind die Rohdaten?

this means....the guy is asking why in your report (csv) the value OPER for GPS is there, and in the official report this value is not there?
he dont know actually if its in there or not...i assime its in the raw data.... isnt it?
rob balsamo
QUOTE (vienna @ Jul 8 2013, 04:39 PM) *
this means....the guy is asking why in your report (csv) the value OPER for GPS is there, and in the official report this value is not there?
he dont know actually if its in there or not...i assime its in the raw data.... isnt it?



Official report? Does he mean the pdf documents? pdf documents are different than the csv files. In order to get the csv files you can download them from us or you can get your own from the NTSB through the Freedom Of Information Act. The contact info is in the first post of this thread, but here it is again...

4. Claim - The Information that P4T has analyzed may not be from the NTSB (P4T may have fabricated the information and claims it came from the NTSB)

csv file download and cover letters provided by Undertow
http://pilotsfor911truth.org/forum...hp?showtopic=64

Raw data decode provided by Undertow
http://pilotsfor911truth.org/forum...showtopic=4574

Animation cover letters/envelope provided by Snowgrouch
http://pilotsfor911truth.org/forum...p?showtopic=375

Animation cover letters provided by Mick Harrison
http://pilotsfor911truth.org/forum...showtopic=6205

Animation provided by Third party on google video
http://video.google.com/videoplay?docid=65...=AA77+Animation

George Washington University NTSB Data
http://www.gwu.edu/%7Ensarchiv/NSAEBB/NSAEBB196/index.htm

NTSB FOIA Website
http://www.ntsb.gov/info/foia_fri.htm

NTSB FOIA Contact - Melba D. Moye
202-314-6000

NTSB FOIA Request form -
http://www.ntsb.gov/pubmail/pubmail.asp

vienna
ji

the company at the german forum is claiming about the rew file.....although i think they might cant read it at all. they asking, if your csv file ist the correct export of this raw file, provided by the NTSB :-)
vienna
somebody claims the AAL77_tabular.csv looks different (without GPS) as some other csv provided here in the forum. which one is authentic?

regards
vienna
rob balsamo
QUOTE (vienna @ Jul 8 2013, 05:33 PM) *
ji

the company at the german forum is claiming about the rew file.....although i think they might cant read it at all. they asking, if your csv file ist the correct export of this raw file, provided by the NTSB :-)



We received 3 sets of data from the NTSB through the Freedom Of Information Act.

- A raw file.

- A csv file.

- An animation reconstruction based on the above data.

All of the above can be obtained from the NTSB by anyone in the world. All they have to do is fill out an FOIA request form in the links I provided above.

Also, I noticed you are talking about lat/long on the other forum.

The Lat/Long coordinates are recorded from the FMS (not GPS nor IRS). The FMS gets its information from a variety of sources - IRS, VORDME, DMEDME, VORVOR.. .etc.... and GPS if installed. The data shows a GPS as operational. N644AA was not GPS equipped, but many military aircraft were... in 2001.

Again, there is no evidence linking the data to N644AA and the data provided shows evidence to the contrary....

Keep in mind, the Flight Deck Door parameter has only been verified for one flight. The data for all other flights claiming the door closed for all flights was not decoded by the NTSB. It was decoded by some guy in Australia using a program he created with freeware downloaded from the net, while also claiming the industry leading software used by the NTSB has some sort of "bug". None of which is confirmed by the NTSB.

It is funny to watch those who blindly support the govt story, blindly accept data decoded by some guy in Australia which supports their confirmation bias, yet they question us as to where we got our data.

All they have to do is fill out the FOIA form and they will get their own directly from the NTSB matching our data which we obtained from the NTSB.
rob balsamo
QUOTE (vienna @ Jul 8 2013, 05:40 PM) *
somebody claims the AAL77_tabular.csv looks different (without GPS) as some other csv provided here in the forum. which one is authentic?

regards
vienna


We have 2 csv files... 2 readouts.

This is the csv file as sent directly from the NTSB. - http://pilotsfor911truth.org/p4t/AAL77_tabular.zip

This is the raw file as sent directly from the NTSB - http://pilotsfor911truth.org/p4t/AA77_Raw.zip

This is the raw file decoded so it can be read in csv format. - http://pilotsfor911truth.org/p4t/a77.2_complete.csv

You will notice many more parameters listed in the raw csv file.

Many parameters were omitted in the NTSB tabular csv file, such as Radar Altitude. We were able to decode more parameters from the raw file sent from the NTSB.
vienna
hi again... i have a short question...

Bei Flug AA77 handelte es sich um eine Boeing B757-2. Diese hatte KEINEN SENSOR für die Tür verbaut.
Selbst der Flugschreiber war nicht für eine derartige Aufzeichnung ausgestattet.
Zum 18.08 2001 mussten die FLUGSCHREIBER umgerüstet werden jedoch nicht die Tür !
Erst beim Modell B757-3 kam beides zum Einsatz!

that means....
flight AA77 was a boeing 757/200. these planes DOD NOT HAVE SENSORS for the cockpit door installed.
Even the FDR was not configured to record this kind of data.
Until august, 18th, 2001, the FDR must be reprogrammed/adjusted, but not the doors themself.
Only from the model 757/300 this functionality was installed completly.


ist this correct int this way?

regards
vienna
rob balsamo
QUOTE (vienna @ Jul 9 2013, 06:31 AM) *
Only from the model 757/300 this functionality was installed completly.


ist this correct int this way?

regards
vienna




Those who make this claim are confusing the Data Frame Layout (DFL) number with Aircraft Type. 757-3b is the proper Data Frame Layout required for N644AA as listed here in the NTSB pdf for N644AA.

http://www.ntsb.gov/doclib/foia/9_11/AAL77_fdr.pdf
(bottom of page 2)

United 93 was also a 757-200 aircraft, but used 757-4 Data Frame Layout.

http://www.ntsb.gov/doclib/foia/9_11/UAL93FDR.pdf
(also bottom of page 2)

DFL 757-3b (AA77, a 757-200) has the FLT DECK DOOR parameter which is why you see it listed under the parameters in the NTSB pdf and recorded in the data.

DFL 757-4 (UA93, a 757-200) does not list a FLT DECK DOOR parameter, which is why it is not listed in the NTSB pdf nor recorded.

Data Frame Layout (DFL) number does not correspond to specific aircraft type and are not interchangeable. The -2, -3b, -4 suffix are just revision numbers of the generic Data Frame Layout from Boeing. -3b is a specific revision for American Airlines and then was modified and custom made by American Airlines into 757-3b_1.txt specifically tailored for their 757-200 aircraft and needs specific to American Airlines. 757-4 is a revision number made for United Airlines specifically for their 757-200 Aircraft. United Airlines then custom made their own DFL from the generic Boeing 757-4 DFL into 757UALmap.xls, specifically tailor made for their 757-200 aircraft.

People who make the argument that the 757-2 DFL belongs to a 757-200 series aircraft are using a leap in logic just because they see a 2 after each number designation. They have absolutely nothing to do with each other. Using the same logic, DFL 757-4 should belong to a 757-400 aircraft... but such an aircraft does not exist. DFL 757-4 was made for United Airlines 757-200 series aircraft.


The Regs required only 18 parameter groups to be recorded on the FDR in 2001. This was a minimum requirement. Airliners record many more parameters specific to their needs.

American Airlines has 1100 parameters specified in their custom made data frame layout. Flight Deck Door is one of them.. See Attached below....

Read more here on common arguments with regard to the Flight Deck Door...
http://pilotsfor911truth.org/forum/index.p...&p=10779630

Keep in mind that many parameters are listed as "not working or unconfirmed" by the NTSB, yet they are recorded. A good example of this is the Radio Altitude when the raw file was decoded. The NTSB omitted these parameters from their csv file. But these parameters are in the raw file sent by the NTSB. They were recorded. See more here with regard to Radio Altitude.... http://pilotsfor911truth.org/forum/index.php?showtopic=4801

Also, I emailed Ralph yesterday asking him to check this thread after your questions... this was his response....

1. I soloed at age 14, the day after Pres Kennedy was shot.

2. I served active duty for approx. 6+ years. I completed the rest of the 20 years in the Naval Reserve.

3. I was able to fly for the airlines and serve in the Reserves during my days off with the airline. MANY pilots so the same.

4. The age 65 rule went into affect prior to my reaching age 60, so the age 60 rule does not apply.

5. In 2001, NONE of AA’s 757’s were equipped with GPS. We only used IRS (Inertial Reference System) navigation.




Here are the admitted qualifications of the guy in Australia in which those who support the govt story blindly accept "Flight Deck Door closed for all flights".

"Some people have queried my credentials for investigating Flight Data Recorder (FDR commonly called "black box") data and any relevant affiliations I may have.

I do not have any specific credentials to investigate FDRs or aircraft accidents....

I am not affiliated with nor have I ever worked with or for neither the US National Transport Safety Board (NTSB) nor any other aircraft accident investigator.

I am neither a pilot nor an aircraft engineer and have never flown an aircraft. I am not affiliated with nor have I ever worked with or for any airline, any pilots’ organisation, any aircraft engineering organisation or any FDR manufacturer.

My investigation in to the events of September 11th 2001 is unofficial, independent and completely voluntary.

I was born in New Zealand and I have joint New Zealand and Irish citizenship. I lived in New Zealand up until June 2008 and since then have lived in Brisbane, Australia." - Warren Stutt



Hope this helps...
vienna
this guys at the german forum are tuff.

Weiß Kolstad mit Sicherheit, dass in den 757, die er für AA geflogen ist, der FDR definitiv nicht "GPS OPER" notiert hat?
does kolstad knows, if the parameter GPS (OPER) was written to FDR or not at 2001 in 757?

although i dont know i a pilot really have to know this all....maybe he would clear this out?

regards
vienna
vienna
i assume, if AA would have mentioned to upgrade their 757 with GPS...they would have contacted and informed the pilots for training also.
so i think kolstad would have known, when there weere gps installed on 757.
vienna
hi rob

a chatter on the forum found a document.....this tells, as he said, the 757 200 does not have a parameter FLT DECK DOOR.

Laut Boeing nicht. Die 757-200 hat keinen Parameter FLT DECK DOOR. Siehe Appendix B (Parameter für die 757-200):
http://www.911myths.com/documents/D226A101-3G.pdf

so does the AA 757 have one or not?

rob balsamo
QUOTE (vienna @ Jul 9 2013, 12:07 PM) *
hi rob

a chatter on the forum found a document.....this tells, as he said, the 757 200 does not have a parameter FLT DECK DOOR.

Laut Boeing nicht. Die 757-200 hat keinen Parameter FLT DECK DOOR. Siehe Appendix B (Parameter für die 757-200):
http://www.911myths.com/documents/D226A101-3G.pdf

so does the AA 757 have one or not?


D226A101-3G.pdf is the generic Boeing document. As I explained here the suffix ("-2") is a revision number for the document itself. It has nothing to do with the Aircraft type. For example look at Appendix F, "757-4". There is no such aircraft "757-400". 757-4 was used for UA93, which is also a 757-200, and does not include FLT DECK DOOR.


American Airlines developed their own Data Frame Layout specific to their aircraft fleet based on the 757-3b Data Frame Layout (D226A101-3G.pdf, Appendix E). The file attached below is the Data Frame Layout from American Airlines according to the NTSB for "AAL77" as listed in the NTSB pdf on page 2 ( http://www.ntsb.gov/doclib/foia/9_11/AAL77_fdr.pdf ). 757_3b_1.TXT is the proper document according to the NTSB. It includes FLT DECK DOOR.
rob balsamo
QUOTE (vienna @ Jul 9 2013, 10:25 AM) *
i assume, if AA would have mentioned to upgrade their 757 with GPS...they would have contacted and informed the pilots for training also.
so i think kolstad would have known, when there weere gps installed on 757.



GPS was not suitable for civilian use until May 1, 2000. American Airlines did not retrofit their entire fleet with GPS and train all their pilots to use GPS within 1 year when they already had perfectly good and working IRS systems.

This is very simple. Anyone who wants to know if American Airlines 757's had GPS in 2001 can call American Airlines themselves. Those that refuse to do so and rather argue on the internet, are not interested in the truth.
vienna
hi rob...nce to read you...

listen...what max G could a 757 handle? i know it depends on some factors...but what is the most likley max?
rob balsamo
QUOTE (vienna @ Jul 9 2013, 02:56 PM) *
hi rob...nce to read you...

listen...what max G could a 757 handle? i know it depends on some factors...but what is the most likley max?


As you said, it depends on many factors. However, based on the manufacture limits, precedent and numerous experts, this is the flight envelope for the 767. Reduce speeds by 10 knots for the 757.



See more here....
http://pilotsfor911truth.org/wtc_speed_part2.html
vienna
OMG...now a pilot (he saiys) is entering the debate....LOL...will se what it takes to debunk him....not that i need it...but i hate fakers.
vienna
wat about this guy?
does he calculate right?

http://govtloyalistsite.org/showthread.php?pos...0894#post200089
rob balsamo
That is very old information. Much more information has been gathered since, such as the raw file.

I also see you are discussing time at the other forum. This is from the NTSB.



Official "impact time" is 09:37:45 Eastern Time... according to the NTSB.

This is how the time was calculated....



But as we know now according to the FDR data, the altitude was too high at 09:37:45 (end of recording) for an "impact".
vienna
hi rob

its getting silent now....cause its late :-)
but thanks for the info u gave!
tell ralph, i appreciate his support!

keep on going.....and i really hope, the questions will be answered once.

regards
vienna
rob balsamo
QUOTE (vienna @ Jul 9 2013, 04:40 PM) *
hi rob

its getting silent now....cause its late :-)
but thanks for the info u gave!
tell ralph, i appreciate his support!

keep on going.....and i really hope, the questions will be answered once.

regards
vienna


You're welcome vienna.

Stop by anytime you have questions... that goes for anyone on your German forum as well. We are happy to answer.
vienna
you guys nuked me with the RADalt parameter and the reults out of this.
i even offered 100% more time delay (another 2 sec) and with 4 G and a rookie pilot it seems very impossible to accomplish this mission.
btw.....the G load would also excide 4 G or more, and since this was never recorded....even with 4 sec delay, the data dont work.

regards
vienna
rob balsamo
QUOTE (vienna @ Jul 9 2013, 04:52 PM) *
you guys nuked me with the RADalt parameter and the reults out of this.
i even offered 100% more time delay (another 2 sec) and with 4 G and a rookie pilot it seems very impossible to accomplish this mission.
btw.....the G load would also excide 4 G or more, and since this was never recorded....even with 4 sec delay, the data dont work.

regards
vienna



Here is a scene from our presentation "9/11 Attack On The Pentagon" analyzing G-Forces based on the data provided by the NTSB.



Enjoy...
vienna
abolutley stunning!
who can resist this logic??

thx for share.....
rob balsamo
QUOTE (vienna @ Jul 9 2013, 05:23 PM) *
abolutley stunning!
who can resist this logic??

thx for share.....



I signed up to your German forum and made a post. Now Brandy is asking me a question -

"My question is: what's the FDR getting if a device is not connected?"


I tried to answer him at the forum, but it will no longer allow me to sign in. Am I banned already? lol

Anyway, to answer his (her?) question, if the device was not connected, the NTSB would be using the Data Frame Layout 757-2 or 757-4 which do not include the FLT DECK DOOR. As done with "United 93" (757-4).


Again, just let them know they are free to sign up here if they have questions.
vienna
hi rob

dont know why you cant get in anymore....maybe it would help, if you would post the message, you get, while loggin in.
i was kicked several times already, and i it looks to me, sometimes its just luck.
however...wasnt there yet, so maybe i am also kicked or even banned again.

back to your aswer...
if the device was not connected, the NTSB would be using the Data Frame Layout 757-2 or 757-4 which do not include the FLT DECK DOOR. As done with "United 93" (757-4).


do i understand this correctly? the inverstigators ALWAYS read out all data existing, not values from systems not installed and therefor set with default vlaues?

regards
vienna
rob balsamo
QUOTE (vienna @ Jul 9 2013, 11:51 PM) *
do i understand this correctly? the inverstigators ALWAYS read out all data existing, not values from systems not installed and therefor set with default vlaues?

regards
vienna


I'll answer your question with your own answer....


"....but for me, as a former programmer, if i would write a value to a system, not present/installed currently, with value OPER, my former teacher would throw my diplom[a] out of the window :-) " - Source, http://pilotsfor911truth.org/forum/index.p...&p=10809158


The data provided by the NTSB shows a FLT DECK DOOR recorded, GPS recorded, and RADALT recorded in the raw file. Some people claim these parameters are "not working or unconfirmed". But the fact remains, these parameters were recorded. Anyone who looks at the raw file will readily see that these parameters were in fact recorded, in contradiction to what the NTSB has stated.

AA 757's did not have GPS installed in 2001. Anyone who wants to learn the truth can call American Airlines themselves.

AA 757's did have FLT DECK DOOR sensors in 2001. Anyone who wants to learn the truth can call American Airlines themselves.

UA 757's did not have FLT DECK DOOR sensors, this is why it is not found in the 757-4 Data Frame Layout used for "United 93".


Again, bottom line, there is no evidence linking the data to N644AA, yet there is overwhelming evidence demonstrating that the data could not come from an American Airlines aircraft. See more here - http://pilotsfor911truth.org/no-hard-evidence-aa77.htm

Those who argue with you on the German forum, and continue to ask me questions when I can no longer sign in to your German Forum, while refusing to come here and ask their questions.... are clearly not interested in the truth.

We welcome anyone who has questions.
McMurdo
Hi Rob,

yesterday i read a very plausible explanation concerning FDR Data.
What if the FDR records a 0 for unreliable or damaged systems and a 1 for properly working systems or systems that are not installed in the aircraft.
Lets say 0 is decoded with INOPER and 1 is decoded OPER.
Since you know wether a system ist installed in an aircraft or not it is easy to say why it is still recording a 1 and therefore getting an OPER description in the.cvs file.

If that is the case ALL arguments work perfectly together.
rob balsamo
QUOTE (McMurdo @ Jul 10 2013, 12:35 AM) *
Hi Rob,

yesterday i read a very plausible explanation concerning FDR GPS Data.
What if the FDR records a 0 for unreliable or damaged systems and a 1 for properly working systems or systems that are not installed in the aircraft.
Lets say 0 is decoded with INOPER and 1 is decoded OPER.
Since you know wether a system ist installed in an aircraft or not it is easy to say why it is still recording a 1 and therefore getting an OPER description in the.cvs file.

If that is the case ALL arguments work perfectly together.



Hi McMurdo. Welcome to the forum and thank you for asking, it is a great question.

Here is the decode protocol for GPS according to Data Frame Layout 757-3b_1.txt used by the NTSB. Note the bold.

Uid: GPS
Abbrev: GPS
Name: GPS
Units:
Minimum Value: 0
Maximum Value: 1
Digits Displayed: 0
Signed Value: No
Parameter Type: Discretes
Bitval 0 Output: INOPER
Bitval 1 Output: OPER

Sampling Freq.(hz): 0.25
Number of bits: 1
Locations/value: 1
Frame(s) Subframe(s) Word Start Bit End Bit
ALL 2 254 5 5
Number of Tests: 0

You can download 757-3b_1.txt here.. (for the third time posted on this thread...)
vienna
Hi Rob

i think we might would see a bit more clearly when we know something of the fdr row-data from the 757 of flight UA93.

my questions....
was the FDR found?
was the FDR analyzed and read out?
was a parameter found which is telling something about the flight-deck door status?

since you told us that B757 UA93 didnt had a sensor at the flight-deck-door, it would be interesting which parameter (if) was written to the FDR.


thanks in advance and regards
vienna
vienna
mcmurdo:
yesterday i read a very plausible explanation concerning FDR GPS Data.
What if the FDR records a 0 for unreliable or damaged systems and a 1 for properly working systems or systems that are not installed in the aircraft.


for me....more plausible information would be..
0 = unreliable, failure, not working, not installed.
1 = working, and therfore also installed.

everything else, doesnt make sense to me...from a perspective of a former programmer and IT expert.
rob balsamo
QUOTE (vienna @ Jul 10 2013, 02:37 AM) *
my questions....
was the FDR found?


Yes... (obviously).

Read here...

http://pilotsfor911truth.org/FDR_location_091607.html

and here....

http://pilotsfor911truth.org/location_2

The question remains, was it the FDR from N644AA?

QUOTE
was the FDR analyzed and read out?


Of course... read here again....

http://pilotsfor911truth.org/forum/index.p...&p=10809177

We would not have those files if the NTSB did not provide them....

The question remains, was it the FDR from N644AA?


QUOTE
....was a parameter found which is telling something about the flight-deck door status?


Yes.

Read here...

http://pilotsfor911truth.org/american_77_h...impossible.html

here....

http://pilotsfor911truth.org/forum/index.php?showtopic=18405

here...

http://pilotsfor911truth.org/forum/index.php?showtopic=18428

and here...

http://pilotsfor911truth.org/no-hard-evidence-aa77.html

QUOTE
since you told us that B757 UA93 didnt had a sensor at the flight-deck-door, it would be interesting which parameter (if) was written to the FDR.


Nothing was written to the FDR regarding the FLT DECK DOOR on United 93. It does not exist in the "UA93" data. This is because United Airlines did not have a FLT DECK DOOR sensor installed.


QUOTE
thanks in advance and regards
vienna


You're welcome... hope this helps...
vienna
hi rob

i have another statement, maybe you could help out....

ich zweifle mittlerweile sehr stark an deren Kompetenz und das sie wirklich solche Experten sind wie sie sich darstellen. Sonst hätten sie die NTSB längst verklagt.Sie sollen erstmal beweisen, dass ihre CSV Daten tatsächlich von der NTSB stammten und dass die NTSB dafür eine Garantie abgegeben hat dass die Werte stimmen.

in english:
i doubt, in meanwhile, on the competency P4T have. If they would have this competency, the NTSB would bring them to court (for telling such nonsens?)
they (p4T) should first show evidence, that the csv file, they claimed it is originally from NTSB, actually is really originally from NTSB officials and further approved by the NTSB.
(and additionally i think, he believes that the files are corrupted (manipulated) by somebody :-) maybe you? )


hope you understand this statement....

regards
vienna
vienna
sorry wrong translation

i doubt, in meanwhile, on the competency P4T have. If they would have this competency, the NTSB would bring them to court (for telling such nonsens?)

should be like that:
i doubt, in meanwhile, on the competency P4T have. If they would have this competency, they (P4T) would go to court against NTSB
vienna
hi rob....

what is the story behind this one??

Hmmm was sagen denn die P4T Anhänger dazu, das ihr Anführer offensichtlich Dinge verändert damit er keine Fehler eingestehen muss?


Balsamo took 767 speeds and placed them in an educational Vg diagram, removing the real speeds. Look at the T-37 graph. And then below at the T-38 diagram. Then see Balsamo's fake 767 Vg diagram and he/she admits it, but implies it is valid.

regards
vienna
McMurdo
QUOTE (rob balsamo @ Jul 10 2013, 05:39 AM) *
Hi McMurdo. Welcome to the forum and thank you for asking, it is a great question.

Here is the decode protocol for GPS according to Data Frame Layout 757-3b_1.txt used by the NTSB. Note the bold.
...
Bitval 0 Output: INOPER
Bitval 1 Output: OPER

...


Hi Rob,
so far so good but the question remains.
What data does the FDR record if there is no system installed on the aircraft but the FDR/DLF has a parameter to be recorded.
Have you checked that with AA, NTSB or the FDR manufacturer?
rob balsamo
QUOTE (vienna @ Jul 10 2013, 07:43 AM) *
should be like that:
i doubt, in meanwhile, on the competency P4T have. If they would have this competency, they (P4T) would go to court against NTSB


We cannot take the NTSB to court as we are not a victim nor does the NTSB have jurisdiction. Their work product was on behalf of the FBI (see video below). But we did sign an affidavit for a victim. Anyone competent in their research would already know this....

http://pilotsfor911truth.org/pentagon_lawsuit.html

Keep in mind, the above case was thrown out before the evidence was even evaluated by the Judges. One of the Judges being a cousin of George Bush.


Call to the NTSB here...







QUOTE
Balsamo took 767 speeds and placed them in an educational Vg diagram, removing the real speeds. Look at the T-37 graph. And then below at the T-38 diagram. Then see Balsamo's fake 767 Vg diagram and he/she admits it, but implies it is valid.


Duhbunkers Unable To Plot Vg Diagram With Data, VG Diagram by P4T is Fake?
http://pilotsfor911truth.org/forum/index.php?showtopic=21888

In short, if you know the V-speeds of an aircraft, and the G loading limits, you can plot your own V-G diagram for any aircraft. Flight Instructors do it everyday. Those who claim we "faked" the V-G diagram clearly know nothing about aviation.


QUOTE (McMurdo @ Jul 10 2013, 10:33 AM) *
What data does the FDR record if there is no system installed on the aircraft but the FDR/DLF has a parameter to be recorded.



They would be using a different Data Frame Layout which does not have equipment listed... such as Data Frame Layout 757-4 for "UA93" which did not have a FLT DECK DOOR sensor installed, nor is it in the Data Frame Layout.

Can you please provide evidence which shows the FLT DECK DOOR open to facilitate a "hijack"?
McMurdo
QUOTE (rob balsamo @ Jul 10 2013, 04:14 PM) *
They would be using a different Data Frame Layout which does not have equipment listed... such as Data Frame Layout 757-4 for "UA93" which did not have a FLT DECK DOOR sensor installed, nor is it in the Data Frame Layout.

Can you please provide evidence which shows the FLT DECK DOOR open to facilitate a "hijack"?

Obviously they used a Data Frame Layout which did have FLT DECK DOOR Port and which did have a GPS Port.
The question is what would you read out of a FDR (0 or 1) if you use such Data Frame Layouts even if an aircraft doesn´t have these systems onboard? Can you answer that question?
rob balsamo
QUOTE (McMurdo @ Jul 10 2013, 12:17 PM) *
Obviously they used a Data Frame Layout which did have FLT DECK DOOR Port and which did have a GPS Port.
The question is what would you read out of a FDR (0 or 1) if you use such Data Frame Layouts even if an aircraft doesn´t have these systems onboard? Can you answer that question?



Why would anyone use a document to analyze something that does not exist? They would use 757-4 if the FLT DECK DOOR sensor was not installed as they did with "UA93". In other words, if the FLT DECK DOOR sensor was not installed, you would see nothing at all with regard to "FLT DECK DOOR". As is the case with "UA93"

I have answered your question 3 times now....

Can you answer my question?

Can you please provide evidence which shows the FLT DECK DOOR open to facilitate a "hijack"?


And for those having a hard time reading Kolstad's FAA credentials.... click here...



or click the attached thumbnail below...

Note the 757 and 767 type ratings.
McMurdo
QUOTE (rob balsamo @ Jul 10 2013, 05:24 PM) *
Why would anyone use a document to analyze something that does not exist? They would use 757-4 if the FLT DECK DOOR senor was not installed as they did with "UA93". In other words, if the FLT DECK DOOR sensor was not installed, you would see nothing at all with regard to "FLT DECK DOOR". As is the case with "UA93"

I have answered your question 3 times now....

Is that your answer to a question which has only two possible answers (0 or 1)?


QUOTE (rob balsamo @ Jul 10 2013, 05:24 PM) *
Can you answer my question?

Can you please provide evidence which shows the FLT DECK DOOR open to facilitate a "hijack"?

Unfortunately to answer this question you first need to answer the question above since we don´t know what a FDR records when a given system is not installed.
rob balsamo
QUOTE (McMurdo @ Jul 10 2013, 12:55 PM) *
Is that your answer to a question which has only two possible answers (0 or 1)?


Wrong. There is a 3rd answer. If a FLT DECK DOOR sensor is not installed, use a Data Frame Layout which does not include the FLT DECK DOOR. Such as DFL 757-4 in the case of "UA93".



QUOTE
Unfortunately to answer this question you first need to answer the question above since we don´t know what a FDR records when a given system is not installed.


In other words you cannot provide any evidence showing the FLT DECK DOOR open for a 'hijack' to occur. The only data we have shows the FLT DECK DOOR closed which makes it impossible for a "hijack".

Do you agree that if the data is accurate, then there is a serious problem with the official story?

And for those reading censura.net from the German forum, see here....

William D. Clinger - Physics Of Conspiracy - Debunked, Flight Path, Virgina DOT,
http://pilotsfor911truth.org/forum/index.p...&p=10778894

Hope this helps....

by the way, i still cannot log in to the German forum.... when I try to login, it reverts back to the Forum index and says at the top -
"Werde jetzt kostenlos Mitglied um Diskussionen zu beobachten und Beiträge zu verfassen (Konto erstellen)."

Translation - "Become a free member now to observe discussions and draft posts (create account)."
This is a "lo-fi" version of our main content. To view the full version with more information, formatting and images, please click here.
Invision Power Board © 2001-2014 Invision Power Services, Inc.