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CB_Brooklyn
WTC Molten Metal: Fact or Fiction?

Analysis of the Evidence



If 9/11 was an inside job, the perpetrators obviously have total control of the media. In this case, would it not make sense for them to plant propaganda in the media to distract those who are already suspicious of the attacks? As Dr Judy Wood has asked, “If 9/11 was well planned, wouldn't the cover-up be even more well planned?”

The perpetrators are experts at propaganda. Those who know 9/11 was an inside job also know the official story told by the media to be nothing but propaganda. Interestingly, the Washington Post says the military is targeting the “U.S. Home Audience” with a “propaganda campaign”.

Americans have a bad habit of believing those who they consider trustworthy instead of examining evidence for themselves. As former Assistant Secretary to the US Treasury, Dr Paul Craig Roberts said, “Americans never check any facts. Who do you know, for example, who has even read the Report of the 9/11 Commission, much less checked the alleged facts reported in that document. I can answer for you. You don’t know anyone who has read the report or checked the facts.”

Many still trust George W Bush simply because of the media.
People don’t check facts.
People don’t analyze evidence.
People don’t think.

How do we really know there was molten metal at Ground Zero? Just because a “mild mannered” scientist says so?

Let’s take a look at the molten metal evidence piece by piece. The reader is encouraged to look at the information for themselves and to think for themselves.



*Eyewitnesses / Statements*


Leslie Robertson - Structural Engineer / Designer of WTC:

On the Structural Engineers Association of Utah’s website, James Williams (SEAU President) described what Robertson said at an October 2001 conference: “as of 21 days after the attack, the fires were still burning and molten steel was still running”.

Robertson received millions of taxpayer dollars and could be considered a member of the Global Elite. Who do the Global Elite represent, us or themselves?


William Langewiesche - Only Journalist to Have Unrestricted Access to Ground Zero During Cleanup:

In his book “American Ground”, Langewiesche said: “in the early days, the streams of molten metal that leaked from the hot cores and flowed down broken walls inside the foundation hole.”

Did Langewiesche see this molten metal himself, or is he repeating statements from others? Do the 9/11 perpetrators control the information the media puts out?


Ron Burger - Public Health Advisor at the National Center for Environmental Health, Centers for Disease Control and Prevention:

The National Environmental Health Association’s paper “Messages in the Dust” quotes Burger: “Feeling the heat, seeing the molten steel, the layers upon layers of ash, like lava, it reminded me of Mt. St. Helens and the thousands who fled that disaster.”

Burger is on a government payroll. Is he trustworthy? Burger’s statement was published in a government document. Is it trustworthy?

Ken Holden - Involved in Organizing Ground Zero Cleanup:

The 9/11 Commission Report quotes Holden: “Underground, it was still so hot that molten metal dripped down the sides of the wall from [WTC] Building 6."

Holden is on a government payroll and helped organize the cleanup of an inside job terrorist attack. Is he trustworthy? Is the 9/11 Commission Report trustworthy, or is it propaganda?


Guy Lounsbury - Member of New York Air National Guard’s 109th Air Wing:

National Guard Magazine article written by Lounsbury (excerpt): “One fireman told us that there was still molten steel at the heart of the towers' remains. Firemen sprayed water to cool the debris down but the heat remained intense enough at the surface to melt their boots.”

If the temperature was hot enough to melt the firefighters’ boots,
their feet would have been incinerated.



When water comes in contact with molten metal,
the result is a
steam explosion:


Wikipedia quote (emphasis added): “A dangerous steam explosion can be created when liquid water encounters hot, molten metal. As the water explodes into steam, it splashes the burning hot liquid metal along with it, causing an extreme risk of severe burns to anyone located nearby and creating a fire hazard.”

A Google search reveals numerous government documents with warnings and safety information on this topic.

Rest assured, the Fire Department of New York knows not to spray water anywhere near molten metal!


Steam explosions are highly dangerous,
as we learned in NYC in July 2007:


Associated Press excerpt: "McCullough was driving a tow truck that was thrown into the air by the powerful geyser of steam. He landed in the crater gouged out by the blast and suffered third-degree burns over 80 percent of his body."


Source and more information on Dr Wood’s site


Look at the Ground Zero photo below.
Note the fumes surrounding the workers. Is this really a steam explosion? Are the workers boiled?


Source




But what about the firefighters who claim to have actually seen molten metal? Perhaps the 9/11 perpetrators performed a PSYOP suggesting it was molten metal, and this idea got repeated around Ground Zero. After such a tragedy as 9/11 people don’t wish to reflect back and relive the event, so they latch on to the first answer they get.. See Dr Wood’s site for more information.

(References for the witnesses above, as well as other quotes, can be found here and here.)




*Official Government Thermal Map Image*



Source

The official government thermal map from 9/16/01 above shows Zone F to be the largest hot spot. But the following photo shows no large hot spots just seven days later, 9/23/01:

Source


Assuming the official government thermal maps to be authentic, we know most of the molten metal disappeared less than two weeks after 9/11.

However, the US government thermal map images are likely doctored. As Dr Wood shows here and here, Zone F is the same area as this empty, damp hole in a FEMA picture filed 9/18/01. Where's the molten metal?


Source




*Solid Orange Slag*




This picture appears in Steven Jones’ current (last checked August 1, 2007) September 2006 “Why Indeed” paper, which also states the photographer to be Frank Silecchia, and that the picture was taken on 9/27/01 according to the photographer’s aid. But is the picture authentic?

We notice the slag being lifted by a metal crane. Note the close proximity between the slag and the exposed hydraulics.

According to Jones’ paper (and confirmed by the charts he references), the color of the solid metal slag indicates a temperature over 845° C.

Yet, mechanical engineering handbooks reveal hydraulics to fail at a fraction of the temperature of Jones’ slag:

Machinery Lubrication – “Hydraulic Equipment Reliability: Beyond Contamination Control”
Quote (emphasis added): “Hydraulic fluid temperatures above 82°C (180ºF) damage most seal compounds and accelerate oil degradation. A single overtemperature event of sufficient magnitude can permanently damage all the seals in an entire hydraulic system, resulting in numerous leaks. The by-products of thermal degradation of the oil (soft particles) can cause reliability problems such as valve-spool stiction and filter clogging.”


Machinery Lubrication – “ Symptoms of Common Hydraulic Problems and Their Root Causes”
Quote (emphasis added): “Fluid temperatures above 180°F (82°C) can damage seals and accelerate degradation of the fluid. This means that the operation of any hydraulic system at temperatures above 180°F is detrimental and should be avoided. Fluid temperature is too high when viscosity falls below the optimum value for the system’s components. The temperature at which this occurs is dependent on the viscosity grade of the fluid in the system and can be well below 180°F.”


Machine Design – “Predicting the life of hydraulic hose”
Quote (emphasis added): Temperature range recommended for typical rubber hose spans about –40 to 212°F [212° F = 100° C]. Fluid or ambient temperatures outside these bounds impact service life. Plasticizers leach out of elastomers faster at high temperatures, though the rate depends on the actual temperature and duration. Heat-related failure is evident when the cover shows signs of hardening and cracking, and the hose shape takes on a permanent set.
Temperatures below recommended will also shorten service life. This problem is evident when the inner tube shows signs of stiffness and cracks. Specials are available for either extreme: Low-temperature hoses for service to –67°F and high-temperature versions for applications exceeding 300°F. [300° F = 149° C]”


Jones’ slag is over 845° C, yet hydraulic fluid systems fail above 82° C.

The recommended highest temperature for standard hydraulic rubber hoses is 100° C, with special heavy duty hoses available for temperatures above 149° C.

Given the vast temperature differences between the slag and the maximum operating temperatures for hydraulics, is it plausible for Jones’ photo to be real? The temperature of the slag is over 10 times greater than the maximum allowable temperature for hydraulic fluid systems.


If there was molten metal in the ruins below,
the hydraulic systems in those orange grapplers would be destroyed.



Source

See Dr Wood’s site for more information:
http://drjudywood.com/articles/dirt/dirt4.html#cheetos
http://drjudywood.com/articles/dirt/dirt4.html#hydraulics



Continued...
CB_Brooklyn
*NIST / Camera Planet Photo*



Source (Page 86 of the pdf file, page 382 of the printed NIST document)

Jones cites NIST as the source of the photo above. But he fails to mention that NIST admitted doctoring the image. In addition, Jones cropped the photo and removed NIST’s caption that read “The intensity levels have been adjusted”. The following is the photo as it appeared in Jones’ paper:


Source (currently searching for copy of Jones' paper with this image)


Jones used the colors in the photo for scientific analysis, yet NIST admitted adjusting the intensity levels. Is this good science? On top of that, why did Jones hide the fact that it was doctored?

NOTE: Following Drs Morgan Reynolds / Judy Wood’s debunk, Jones removed the photo from his paper without notice or explanation!


Jones now uses the photo below, a still from the CameraPlanet Archive video:




Although the video starts several minutes after NIST’s photo was taken, it is peculiar that the molten flow switches windows.

The following is analysis by Drs Wood/Reynolds from their paper "Why Indeed Did the WTC Buildings Disintegrate? A peer-review of Steven E. Jones' 9/11 Research":


====================================
NIST acknowledges it "adjusted" the intensity of the photos somehow, so they were already doctored. Perhaps it was real phenomena but we strongly doubt it because
• No heat source is specified
• The liquid inexplicably appears to flow from a window rather than the floor and there is no explanation for what surface would support the flow
• The flow changes windows
• The aluminum cladding on the exterior displays no signs of heat or melting despite the fact that iron begins to melt at 1538° C and aluminum alloys begin to melt at temperatures under 660° C
• The flow disappears prior to destruction of WTC 2 as the video jumps.
We cannot explain how molten metal would pour from a window ledge and then move and pour from another window ledge, although NIST claims the flow performed such a feat within seven minutes of collapse. We need answers to these questions before we become convinced that the event was real and therefore deserves analysis.

====================================


Is CameraPlanet a reputable source? CameraPlanet released the amateur 9/11 video footage showing an aluminum airplane gliding into a steel/concrete building:




Another item of interest... the owner of CameraPlanet is a magician. Is he a visual trickery expert too?




*Workers Peering Into Hole*




This image was included in Jones’ September 2006 paper with the caption “Workers evidently peering into the hot “core” under the WTC rubble.”.

The image in Jones’ PDF (linked above) has “GEOEPOCHE 85” in the lower right corner, indicating it came from page 85 of a copy of the German magazine Geo Epoche.

Jones fails to properly source the photo. Geo Epoche is not mentioned anywhere in his paper’s references, so we don’t know what edition it came from.

However, the picture has been doctored. If the orange color was real the workers’ skin would have melted off their faces. As Dr Jim Fetzer said in comparison (paraphrased): “would you put your face over a boiling tea kettle?” That’s just a mere 212° F compared to Jones’ 1500°+ F orange image.


Here is the original photo, as archived on hereisnewyork.org. As can be seen, the workers are using search lights. They are not “peering into a hot core”:


Source


NOTE: Jones removed the photo from his paper without notice or explanation!


It should be noted that there are NO pictures whatsoever of molten metal in the ruins at Ground Zero.


Anyone having an interest in learning of Steven Jones’ research should go here.




Purpose of Fabricating Molten Metal Stories


Why would the 9/11 perpetrators fabricate a molten metal story? Perhaps it’s a cover for what really happened.

Notice the orange colored fumes in the photo below.


Source

If that were a steam explosion, the driver of the grappler would be severely burned. But who ever heard of orange steam anyway? Take a look at the Solid Orange Slag picture and notice similar orange fumes.

As Dr Judy Wood shows in her paper, the orange fumes are the result of molecular dissociation.


Why would the 9/11 perpetrators fabricate such a story when they know people will eventually catch on? The perpetrators are planning a police state, following the next false flag terror attack. When the police state is in full force, the public will be powerless. No new 9/11 investigation. I encourage everyone to read Andrew Johnson’s article “A Touch of “The Hidden Hand”? - Is the Next False Flag Attack on US Soil Near?” and to spread the information as far and as wide as possible. People need to work together to prevent this from happening.


Hopefully, this "wtc molten metal: fact of fiction" article helped to expose what's happening.
Cary
CB Brooklyn,

You gotta be shittin' me on the "no molten metal" claim right? If not, dude, you're losing it.
chucksheen
Questions I have regarding this topic:

http://forum.911movement.org/index.php?sho...post&p=14229924
maturin42
Let's see...

The gummint is trying to trick us by faking molten metal evidence so Steven Jones will say it and give examples and evidence, and they controlled the minds of the firefighters on the scene who are seen on tape talking about it running under the pile and NASA images confirm the high temps persisting for weeks, and it is consistent with use of high explosives and thermate, the signature of which is found in the steel and the dust so it must be a trick to keep us from guessing that they used little tiny atom bombs...

Have I got that straight?

Cary said:
QUOTE
CB Brooklyn,

You gotta be shittin' me on the "no molten metal" claim right? If not, dude, you're losing it.


Yeah. What Cary said.

pilotfly.gif
Timothy Osman
QUOTE
We notice the slag being lifted by a metal crane. Note the close proximity between the slag and the exposed hydraulics.

According to Jones’ paper (and confirmed by the charts he references), the color of the solid metal slag indicates a temperature over 845° C.

Yet, mechanical engineering handbooks reveal hydraulics to fail at a fraction of the temperature of Jones’ slag:


I just can't believe the ridiculous argument about the exposed hydraulics on the excavator attachment, it goes on and on about machinery.
Not only is the excavator grab attachment the only piece being exposed directly since the thing would be swinging loads out of the heat but they still make rubber seals for hydraulics. Hell you can even buy replacement excavators.
Why do these people see the need to attack others to promote their own theory?
amazed!
CB

Not too persuasive dude!

I kept thinking you were somehow going to tie it all together, but then you go from yellow steam to NWO as it were, and pssst......failure mode.

dunno.gif
clue2mystery
QUOTE (CB_Brooklyn @ Aug 7 2007, 12:56 AM)
Jones’ slag is over 845° C, yet hydraulic fluid systems fail above 82° C.

The entire steel industry is driven by hydraulic equipment.


Your mechanical engineering handbook is not up to date. You can not buy nowadays any seal for a temperature for less then 100° C, but easily up to 400°C.
http://www.economos.com/economos_COM/stand...view.asp#piston

But all this does not matter. We speak about radiant heat for less then 60 seconds. A hydraulic cylinder, inside the cylinder are the seals, has to be heated over 100°C in 60 seconds or less by radiant heat, cooled by the oil inside.

And if you reach lets say 150°C for a longer period of time, nothing bad will happen. The seals will not work properly, that’s all.

Sorry this is a very bad argument.
amazed!
clue2

Thanks. I had wondered about those statements about hydraulics.
CB_Brooklyn
QUOTE (clue2mystery @ Aug 7 2007, 09:04 PM)
QUOTE (CB_Brooklyn @ Aug 7 2007, 12:56 AM)
Jones’ slag is over 845° C, yet hydraulic fluid systems fail above 82° C.

The entire steel industry is driven by hydraulic equipment.


Your mechanical engineering handbook is not up to date. You can not buy nowadays any seal for a temperature for less then 100° C, but easily up to 400°C.
http://www.economos.com/economos_COM/stand...view.asp#piston

But all this does not matter. We speak about radiant heat for less then 60 seconds. A hydraulic cylinder, inside the cylinder are the seals, has to be heated over 100°C in 60 seconds or less by radiant heat, cooled by the oil inside.

And if you reach lets say 150°C for a longer period of time, nothing bad will happen. The seals will not work properly, that’s all.

Sorry this is a very bad argument.

A 845 deg slag being lifted by a metal crane just a few feet from hydraulics that fail at a fraction of that temperature? You think they're going to chance it by only lifting it for 60 seconds? Come on.

My argument is 100% solid. btw, where were all the steam explosions?
amazed!
CB

Maybe you missed the point about radiant heat.

Even if your numbers about hydraulic systems are accurate, and I'm not convinced that is the case, the temperature of something held by the jaws of the bucket is NOT instantly transferred to the hydraulic system. The slag represents some measure of radiant heat, and air tends to insulate rather than transmit heat.
Beached
QUOTE
CB_Brooklyn said some stuff...




CB, if you're going to keep pushing this nonesense, then I suggest you take it back over to LC. Here at P4T you are dealing a more intelligent individual, and I can tell you now that you are not going to be selling that directed energy weapon crap to any of us! So just pack it in!!

I already responded to you in this thread, but just in case you missed it...

http://pilotsfor911truth.org/forum...showtopic=6541

QUOTE
Beached wrote:

CB_Brooklyn is correct - I cannot completely disprove the use of "exotic weaponry", however, I can prove that people like Fetzer, Reynolds, and Wood are liars! If we take into consideration their deceptive experiments, and the fact that they lie about everything else, then on the balance of probabilities, is it not unreasonable to conclude that their "research" into a directed energy weapon is also a lie?

These liars are the reason people laugh at us... They are turning people away from honest research!

This critique illustrates the implausibility of such a device:
http://journalof911studies.com/volume/2007...ory-Jenkins.pdf

One shouldn't be so naive as to think that the in-fighting at "Scholars For 9/11 Truth" is due to a mere loss of direction. The reason Judy Wood and other liars systematically attack Steven Jones is to confuse us, so that we look in the wrong direction.

"Scholars For 9/11 Truth" is a deceptive organization!

We've come a long way since Loose Change. To understand the level of deception we are dealing with here, we need to understand exactly what is going on.

Consider the following hypothetical scenario involving an attack by Korean terrorists:

Nuclear devices explode in Seattle, Washington, and Dallas

What would you think if you turned on your television and heard a top U.S. General, Wan San Lin, of South Korean descent, announce that they have identified the terrorists who set off the nuclear bombs, and they are from North Korea?

What would you think if the Comptroller of the Pentagon, who is of South Korean descent, cannot account for $2.4 trillion and 18 nuclear bombs. What would you think if nobody in the government or the media investigates?

What would you think if five South Koreans were arrested for dancing and filming as the nuclear blast destroyed Seattle? What would you think if they were quietly sent back to South Korea rather than investigated? What would you think if they told the arresting officers that "We are not your problem. The North Koreans are your problem."

What would you think if 120 South Korean "art students" were also arrested, and then quietly deported to South Korea?

What would you think if hundreds of people suspected that the nuclear attack was an inside job and Nuke Truth Groups began to investigate?

What would you think if 2% of the United States population was comprised of South Koreans, however, 90% of the people in the Nuke Truth Groups were of South Korean descent, or married to one?

What would you think if the Nuke Truth groups promoted the theory that President Bush was behind the nuclear attack, and that South Korea was an innocent victim of the Jesuits and anti-South Koreanism?

What would you think if 99% of the people promoting the theory that the nuclear bombs were holograms, blue screen technology or laser beams from space were also South Korean?

What would you think if an anti-Nuke Truth group was formed for the purposes of "debunking" these dubious theories? What would you think if this group was also 90% comprised of South Koreans?

What would think if the Federal Reserve chairman was of South Korean descent?

What would you think if most top reporters and virtually all the top media executives in the USA, Canada, Australia, and Europe were of South Korean descent?

What would you think if a large percentage of the Bush administration, the Clinton administration, and so on, were of South Korean descent?

What would you think if an unarmed U.S. Navy ship was attacked for more than two hours by South Korean aircraft, and afterwards the South Korean government dismissed the attack on the grounds that they thought it was a North Korean warship?

What would you think if people like Alex Jones would not properly address the issue of South Korea's possible involvement in this nuclear attack? What if they blamed the "Luciferian Controllers" or the "New World Order"?

What would you think if South Korea had a long history of staging terrorist attacks and blaming North Korea?

What would you think if Hollywood was dominated by people of South Korean descent, and their movies and television shows promoted hatred of North Korea and pity for South Korea?

What would you think if the anti-South Korean organizations were dominated by people of South Korean descent?

What would you think if one of the founders of South Korea had made a remark that anti-South Koreanism is one of the best tools for developing their nation?

What would you think if a large percentage of South Koreans felt that they were a superior race, and that the rest of us were animals?

Would you be able to figure out what is going on?
clue2mystery
@CB_Brooklyn
Here is the sealing _____________________________ X


Your picture shows a small piece of slag held by jaws. The distance of a very small piece of slag to the sealing of the cylinder is about 2 meters or more. Even it is a mini machine it is 1 meter or more.

This small piece of slag can stay in this position with the same temperature for 1 year or more and the hydraulic system will not fail.

We are supplying steel plants, and hydraulic systems are very close, less then 50 cm to permanent big quantity hot steel with temperatures over 1200°C.
CB_Brooklyn
I can't believe the lunacy in this forum. It's really really amazing. Excavation equipment is not used in the vicinity of molten metal. The inability of thinking skills in this group is very telling.


edit:

not only is excavation equipment not used in the vicinity of molten metal, the fire department will not spray water anywhere near molten metal. Do you people think the FDNY is stupid? The FDNY is well aware that water contacting molten metal is a fire hazard and causes steam explosions. No.... it's not the FDNY who's stupid. They're not the ones making stupid name calling comments.
Timothy Osman
QUOTE (CB_Brooklyn @ Aug 10 2007, 04:20 AM)
I can't believe the lunacy in this forum. It's really really amazing. Excavation equipment is not used in the vicinity of molten metal. The inability of thinking skills in this group is very telling.


edit:

not only is excavation equipment not used in the vicinity of molten metal, the fire department will not spray water anywhere near molten metal. Do you people think the FDNY is stupid? The FDNY is well aware that water contacting molten metal is a fire hazard and causes steam explosions. No.... it's not the FDNY who's stupid. They're not the ones making stupid name calling comments.

I'm not trying to offend you, all I was pointing out is that an excavator is quite capable of picking up a piece of molten metal with a universal grapple attachment.
The attachment itself in the picture you displayed is not being damaged, It's not on fire and my other point was, so what. It's a store bought grapple, they still make them. If you bugger that one up in an extreme situation like the WTC tower clean up just hook onto a new one.
Part of the quenching process would have been exposing the hot area's before sticking a hose on them, thus the excavator.
Beached
QUOTE (CB_Brooklyn @ Aug 10 2007, 04:20 AM)
I can't believe the lunacy in this forum. It's really really amazing. Excavation equipment is not used in the vicinity of molten metal. The inability of thinking skills in this group is very telling.


edit:

not only is excavation equipment not used in the vicinity of molten metal, the fire department will not spray water anywhere near molten metal. Do you people think the FDNY is stupid? The FDNY is well aware that water contacting molten metal is a fire hazard and causes steam explosions. No.... it's not the FDNY who's stupid. They're not the ones making stupid name calling comments.


Use your brain Seigel!

It is highly unlikely this metal would have been extracted in its molten form, however, there is no reason why it could not be extracted while still red-hot, and after it had cooled and solidified.
lunk
Intensity of heat radiation versus distance from source heat
follows the inverse square rule:

http://hyperphysics.phy-astr.gsu.edu/hbase/forces/isq.html

I don't know if this applies to lasers though.

lunk
Sanders
QUOTE (lunk @ Aug 11 2007, 11:00 PM)
I don't know if this applies to lasers though.

laugh.gif


It doesn't.
CB_Brooklyn
QUOTE (Timothy Osman @ Aug 10 2007, 08:34 AM)
QUOTE (CB_Brooklyn @ Aug 10 2007, 04:20 AM)
I can't believe the lunacy in this forum. It's really really amazing. Excavation equipment is not used in the vicinity of molten metal. The inability of thinking skills in this group is very telling.


edit:

not only is excavation equipment not used in the vicinity of molten metal, the fire department will not spray water anywhere near molten metal. Do you people think the FDNY is stupid? The FDNY is well aware that water contacting molten metal is a fire hazard and causes steam explosions. No.... it's not the FDNY who's stupid. They're not the ones making stupid name calling comments.

I'm not trying to offend you, all I was pointing out is that an excavator is quite capable of picking up a piece of molten metal with a universal grapple attachment.
The attachment itself in the picture you displayed is not being damaged, It's not on fire and my other point was, so what. It's a store bought grapple, they still make them. If you bugger that one up in an extreme situation like the WTC tower clean up just hook onto a new one.
Part of the quenching process would have been exposing the hot area's before sticking a hose on them, thus the excavator.

I think I understand your point. But I just think it silly that excavation equipment be used anywhere near temperatures of that magnitude.
CB_Brooklyn
QUOTE (Beached @ Aug 10 2007, 01:05 PM)
QUOTE (CB_Brooklyn @ Aug 10 2007, 04:20 AM)
I can't believe the lunacy in this forum. It's really really amazing. Excavation equipment is not used in the vicinity of molten metal. The inability of thinking skills in this group is very telling.


edit:

not only is excavation equipment not used in the vicinity of molten metal, the fire department will not spray water anywhere near molten metal. Do you people think the FDNY is stupid? The FDNY is well aware that water contacting molten metal is a fire hazard and causes steam explosions. No.... it's not the FDNY who's stupid. They're not the ones making stupid name calling comments.


Use your brain Seigel!

It is highly unlikely this metal would have been extracted in its molten form, however, there is no reason why it could not be extracted while still red-hot, and after it had cooled and solidified.

Accusing me of being someone else? Your paranoia is showing! I am not RS and don't even like that person.


Here's an experiment for you to try:

Put on a pair of those high quality, heat resistant, steel-tipped firefighter boots and slosh around in some molten metal. See if your feet survive!


Dr Wood already challenged Jones on this:

http://drjudywood.com/articles/dirt/dirt4.html#experiments

"Steven Jones often talks about the "pools of molten metal" and "ponds of molten metal" in the basements of the WTC towers. He's also repeated the story of the steel-toed boots of the workers melting "after just a few hours" doing work on "the pile" at the WTC site.

Steven Jones also states that you need to run experiments to prove something. OK, if he's going to use that story of the workers' steel-toed boots melting because of the molten metal on "the pile," he needs to do experiments. (This is his rule.) A true scientist values observations and careful analysis of evidence as essential, whether the evidence already exists or if it is obtained through an experiment.

So, if Steven Jones believes experiments must be conducted to confirm anything, then he needs to put on some steel-toed work boots and slosh across molten metal and then report back his results about what happened to the boots. I think it was said the boots melted in "a few hours" on the pile, which means at least two hours. So, Jones needs to stand in the molten metal for two hours to see what happens to the boots."
Beached
QUOTE (CB_Brooklyn @ Aug 11 2007, 05:29 PM)
QUOTE (Beached @ Aug 10 2007, 01:05 PM)
QUOTE (CB_Brooklyn @ Aug 10 2007, 04:20 AM)
I can't believe the lunacy in this forum. It's really really amazing. Excavation equipment is not used in the vicinity of molten metal. The inability of thinking skills in this group is very telling.


edit:

not only is excavation equipment not used in the vicinity of molten metal, the fire department will not spray water anywhere near molten metal. Do you people think the FDNY is stupid? The FDNY is well aware that water contacting molten metal is a fire hazard and causes steam explosions. No.... it's not the FDNY who's stupid. They're not the ones making stupid name calling comments.


Use your brain Seigel!

It is highly unlikely this metal would have been extracted in its molten form, however, there is no reason why it could not be extracted while still red-hot, and after it had cooled and solidified.

Accusing me of being someone else? Your paranoia is showing! I am not RS and don't even like that person.


Here's an experiment for you to try:

Put on a pair of those high quality, heat resistant, steel-tipped firefighter boots and slosh around in some molten metal. See if your feet survive!


Dr Wood already challenged Jones on this:

http://drjudywood.com/articles/dirt/dirt4.html#experiments

"Steven Jones often talks about the "pools of molten metal" and "ponds of molten metal" in the basements of the WTC towers. He's also repeated the story of the steel-toed boots of the workers melting "after just a few hours" doing work on "the pile" at the WTC site.

Steven Jones also states that you need to run experiments to prove something. OK, if he's going to use that story of the workers' steel-toed boots melting because of the molten metal on "the pile," he needs to do experiments. (This is his rule.) A true scientist values observations and careful analysis of evidence as essential, whether the evidence already exists or if it is obtained through an experiment.

So, if Steven Jones believes experiments must be conducted to confirm anything, then he needs to put on some steel-toed work boots and slosh across molten metal and then report back his results about what happened to the boots. I think it was said the boots melted in "a few hours" on the pile, which means at least two hours. So, Jones needs to stand in the molten metal for two hours to see what happens to the boots."


Who expressly stated, or even implied that those men were "sloshing around" in pools of molten metal? Did you ever consider that extreme heat caused their boots to melt while working in the vicinity of this molten metal?

Of course not! Should you conceed that this is the most logical explanation, it would do nothing to further your cause.

Judy Wood is just another Zionist Jew attempting to muddy the water. Both Wood and Fetzer are currently promoting the idea that the World Trade Center towers were brought down by mysterious energy weapons in order to make 9/11 researchers appear crazy.

If you do not see this, then you are a fool!

In fact, I often wonder if you really are as stupid as you seem. When a person behaves in a stupid manner, they have to expect people to wonder if they are really as stupid as they appear, or if they are Zionist agents.

If you beleive that both towers were brought down by some mysterious DEP, then first of all you will have to prove that such a device even exists! Let's see some evidence... schematics, demonstrations, etc.

P.S Whether or not you happen to be Seigel remains a mystery, however, it is very clear that you both hail from the same camp.
painter
QUOTE (Beached @ Aug 11 2007, 09:36 AM)
<s>Judy Wood is just another Zionist Jew attempting to muddy the water. Both Wood and Fetzer are currently promoting the idea that the World Trade Center towers were brought down by mysterious energy weapons in order to make 9/11 researchers appear crazy.<s>

Beached, statements of prejudice like that are just as easy to be taken and turned against the movement as anything CB or Wood or Fetzer are saying -- can't YOU see THAT? You've weakened your whole argument by playing the zenophobic "zionest jew" card. You are PRESUMING something based on your prejudiced OPINION and stating it as fact. I'm really sick of this sh*t.

This back and forth about this issue is useless. We have credible witnesses who say they saw pools of molten metal. Why can't we just leave it at that? What the f*ck difference does any of this make? The whole damn country and soon the whole world are on the brink of war and here we sit arguing about minutia that can not be proven conclusively absent a court of law or at least a people's tribunal.

@ CB: I'm not one of your fans, believe me, and many of us here are wearying of all this endless debate about things that can not be proven conclusively absent the ability to put witnesses under oath and get cross-examined testimony.

THE POINT BEING -- this is useless. What we need to be focusing our energy on is not trying to decide what is or isn't true, factual or real based on evidence that by its very nature is inconclusive -- but on creating the conditions within which we CAN acquire conclusive evidence. We've got enough evidence already to demand this -- and have had for years -- and still this goes on and on.

I'm ready to end it right here and if I have to start locking threads to get some civility back in this forum I will.
Beached
My apologies for that remark painter, I just let my emotions get the better of me there.
amazed!
CB

You think it's silly that men are working equipment in high temperature area, but they do it all the time. Some people earn money doing that for a living, and you think it's SILLY.

How does that make you look?
Sanders
I never use the words "zionist" and "jew" in the same sentence.

Out of respect for all the cool Jews I know.

Good exchange.

Keep it tight, keep it bulletproof. The facts are our friend. The Jewish religion has little or nothing to do with Zionism, except in the way that Israeli Jews are being brainwashed and led around by the nose just like "patriotic" Americans are. No difference. In fact, many Israeli's have woken up, just as we have.

Our words fail miserably in reflecting reality. Words like Zionism do not, as the word is defined, even describe what we would call Zionists. We need some new words, free from religious connotations - because what we are dealing with has very little, if not nothing, to do with religion, apart from the fact that religion is often used as a tool to subjugate and fool the average Israeli wage earner by those who have no motivation other than power and money.

Seriously, we need some new words. These words we use were created and defined by the enemies of liberty, sovreignty and individual freedom in order to form a fake consciousness to control people.

Does Bush fight for American Ideals?? Do the neocon Zionists in the former Bush administration fight for the Jews? Or are they the same, and they have only war and death on their minds?

Anyway, we are talking about a tiny minority of criminals. I take great delight in pointing out that Lord Lionel Rothschild, the recipient of the Balfour Declaration which promised a piece of Palestine to the Jews, kept Kangaroos in his garden, had his carraige pulled by a team of zebras, and dined with his dogs. Not your typical temple-going Jew. Apparently, religion ceases to be an issue when you aproach the real ruling elite - except as a mind-numbing drug for the rest of us.

2 cents
amazed!
Good post Sanders. Yes, words carry alot of weight. Like Cher sang, words are like weapons, sometimes they wound.

That is part of the connotation of a word, as opposed to its denotation.

Zionist is one of those loaded words, rather like liberal, conservative, terrorist, drug user and others.
CB_Brooklyn
QUOTE (painter @ Aug 11 2007, 01:19 PM)
This back and forth about this issue is useless. We have credible witnesses who say they saw pools of molten metal. Why can't we just leave it at that? What the f*ck difference does any of this make? The whole damn country and soon the whole world are on the brink of war and here we sit arguing about minutia that can not be proven conclusively absent a court of law or at least a people's tribunal.

@ CB: I'm not one of your fans, believe me, and many of us here are wearying of all this endless debate about things that can not be proven conclusively absent the ability to put witnesses under oath and get cross-examined testimony.

THE POINT BEING -- this is useless. What we need to be focusing our energy on is not trying to decide what is or isn't true, factual or real based on evidence that by its very nature is inconclusive -- but on creating the conditions within which we CAN acquire conclusive evidence. We've got enough evidence already to demand this -- and have had for years -- and still this goes on and on.

I'm ready to end it right here and if I have to start locking threads to get some civility back in this forum I will.

painter:

The molten metal was put out purposely as a hoax. Isn't it obvious to you that Steven Jones mm evidence is fabricated, with doctored photos, etc? This is the reason to expose it as a fraud. You know as well as I that the perps are planning more attacks and a police state. They don't care how many people think there was molten metal. I am asking you to try to understand that the perps have been feeding the truth movement propaganda just they've been feeding the American public. There's no difference.


Here's a question for you and others:

What will happen when the eyewitnesses to molten metal go on the witness stand, and then get countered by other evidence? (i.e. lack of steam explosions, doctored photos, etc) The truth movement is being set up big time! This is why I'm spending so much time on this.
Beached
QUOTE
What will happen when the eyewitnesses to molten metal go on the witness stand, and then get countered by other evidence? (i.e. lack of steam explosions, doctored photos, etc) The truth movement is being set up big time! This is why I'm spending so much time on this.


What doctored photos??? When an eyewitness takes the stand, one can only counter his statement with irrefutable proof that he is lying. Furthermore, when that testimony is supported by 2 or more corroborating eyewitnesses, the task becomes much harder. So far I've seen no credible evidence to counter eyewitness reports of molten metal... just Zio-disinformation.

Your DEP nonsense would actually be funny if only it wasn't so damned dangerous to the rest of us! Now I'm going to ask you again, let's see some evidence that your DEP even exists!
lunk
The compressed floor chunks,
called "meteors" consists of a
number of different materials
compressed together, paper
with readable type included.

http://www.amny.com/entertainment/news/am-...allery?index=37

However, I wonder if they needed
some heat to adhere together as in
the process known as sintering.

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Sintering

I think this might be more than
just another sign of excess heat.

lunk
painter
QUOTE (CB_Brooklyn @ Aug 14 2007, 05:45 AM)
<s>
painter:

The molten metal was put out purposely as a hoax.

This is your contention. Your belief based on what you have studied. I don't yet see the evidence that backs up this contention as fact. To me it is still in the realm of speculation.
QUOTE
Isn't it obvious to you that Steven Jones mm evidence is fabricated, with doctored photos, etc? This is the reason to expose it as a fraud.

No, this is not obvious to me at all. Quite the contrary. Either his "sphericals" exist and can be corroborated or they can not. If they can, this means that 9/11 was not a "terrorist attack" as the official narrative would have us believe. The significance of this can not be lost on you.
QUOTE
You know as well as I that the perps are planning more attacks and a police state.

Yes, that is the way it looks to me.
QUOTE
They don't care how many people think there was molten metal.

How do you know that? This is speculation on your part. Maybe they do care very much. Has it occurred to you yet that there may be opposition to this plan from within the elites themselves?
QUOTE
I am asking you to try to understand that the perps have been feeding the truth movement propaganda just they've been feeding the American public. There's no difference.

I understand that that is a possibility. I do not yet understand that this has been proven re Jones, Griffin et al.
QUOTE
Here's a question for you and others:

What will happen when the eyewitnesses to molten metal go on the witness stand, and then get countered by other evidence? (i.e. lack of steam explosions, doctored photos, etc) The truth movement is being set up big time! This is why I'm spending so much time on this.

This is more speculation from you based on your own fear. First we have to get any such trial to exist -- and I don't see anything like that even on the horizon of actual possibilities, do you? Even if it were, even if it could, a trial means putting people under cross examination. If someone has testified on film, as we have seen, that they saw pools of molten metal and then that person denies that account on a witness stand under oath, what does that say about their credibility? What would be the next question from any good attorney? But here, again, we are speculating on events that aren't even close to being in the realm of possibility because we've yet to create the conditions for its actuality. That is my point. MOREOVER, undercutting the credibility of those who are bringing forth evidence which can be scientifically verified (or not), IMO, undercuts the ability to raise public awareness of the CREDIBILITY of the 9/11 issue. So, to me, that really puts the burden on you. Making slanderous contentions without backing it up with credible evidence (not just your speculation of what you 'think' ought to have happened or speculation of what you think 'might' be their reasons or 'might' be the outcome) gets us nowhere.
amazed!
CB

You are full of it sir. Many people saw the molten metal and it was recorded with photos.
Cary
I have to agree here. What's your evidence that the photos of molten steel under WTC 1, 2 and 7 were faked? Don't forget the "fake" witnesses that saw it as well. I don't know where you're getting your info, but it sounds way screwed up. Too many first responders and New Yorkers I've read first hand eyewitness accounts that SAW the molten steel, had to change boots about every hour because of the heat from the pile, etc. for the molten metal all the way down into the 7th basement to be bullshit.
lunk
Contrary to popular belief,
steel is a poor conductor of heat.

Silver, Gold and Copper conduct heat
much quicker.

I think this means that molten steel
will retain it's heat, and stay liquid
for longer than other metals.

How long did the pile of debris
from the WTC smoke for, afterwards?
CB_Brooklyn
painter, one simple question please:

Do you believe the "workers peering into hole" photo that Jones used (shown in my OP) is real, or fake?
CB_Brooklyn
QUOTE (amazed! @ Aug 14 2007, 04:06 PM)
CB

You are full of it sir. Many people saw the molten metal and it was recorded with photos.

Leslie Robertson (designer of the WTC) received millions of our tax payer dollars. He is a member of the Global Elite and does NOT represent us. If there was molten metal, why would he say it?

Please link to the photos that show molten metal in the ruins at Ground Zero.
CB_Brooklyn
If there was molten metal at GZ there would have been multiple steam explosions with all that water the FDNY sprayed.

And with the rainfall the week after, GZ would have been one humongous steam explosion.



The following photo of the NYC July 2007 steam explosion was caused by a broken water pipe:




Water turns to steam at 212 deg F. What temperature was the alleged molten metal?


Quote from Survival Blog:
"You must never put water on molten metal, because it will cause a steam explosion. This will burn you, and send splatters of molten metal flying all over the place making your problems much worse."
amazed!
CB

I'm very lousy at links and other computer skills, so I'm sorry I can't provide any of that.

However in the 18 months I've been studying this event I've seen several pictures and read the testimony of several people who observed the molten metal.

Yes, they could be making it up, but in the big picture, I doubt it.
Beached
QUOTE (CB_Brooklyn @ Aug 15 2007, 09:39 AM)
If there was molten metal at GZ there would have been multiple steam explosions with all that water the FDNY sprayed.

And with the rainfall the week after, GZ would have been one humongous steam explosion.



The following photo of the NYC July 2007 steam explosion was caused by a broken water pipe:




Water turns to steam at 212 deg F. What temperature was the alleged molten metal?


Quote from Survival Blog:
"You must never put water on molten metal, because it will cause a steam explosion. This will burn you, and send splatters of molten metal flying all over the place making your problems much worse."

CB, smoke and steam rose from the smoldering rubble for weeks. Since these pools were buried beneath the rubble, they are hardly in direct contact with rainwater.

Now, once again, I will ask you: Where is the evidence of your mysterious energy weapon??
lunk
QUOTE (CB_Brooklyn @ Aug 15 2007, 04:39 AM)
Quote from Survival Blog:
"You must never put water on molten metal, because it will cause a steam explosion. This will burn you, and send splatters of molten metal flying all over the place making your problems much worse."

The molten metal they seem
to be referring to is Lead for
sand casting bullets.

I don't know if molten iron
has the same properties.

I think I'll stay away from this
experiment.

imo, lunk
genghis6119
cb brooklyn spreads these little breadcrumbs around like some kind of a manager for judy wood. it is bunkum.

judy wood is a strawman. if you look through her site it is designed to give you two options. either believe in the stoopid death ray or straight back the 19 arabs. there are no other options. it is a trap

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=f-Y2kkI0aao

i have accused cb of being judy wood. he/she never came back to the forum. then new sock puppets started turning up singing the same song. i believe they are both working for the government to muddy the waters.
amazed!
If what Judy Wood says about research assistants "helping" FEMA construct its official explanation is true, then her point about DEW might very well be accurate.

If it is true that 2 companies who have done much research on DEW and perhaps developed such systems provided nearly 2 dozen assistants to FEMA in explaining what caused the collapse, that would be yet another of the 2 zillion "coincidences" regarding the events of 9/11.

Obviously, it raises the question of WHY 2 companies involved in DEW testing would provide that many helpers to analyze a heat and gravity event?

If that assistance is NOT true, then maybe Judy is full of it. She comes across as credible to me.
waterdancer
QUOTE (Sanders @ Aug 11 2007, 07:30 PM)
I never use the words "zionist" and "jew" in the same sentence.

rarely say never... laughing1.gif
Beached
QUOTE (genghis6119 @ Aug 17 2007, 01:35 PM)
cb brooklyn spreads these little breadcrumbs around like some kind of a manager for judy wood. it is bunkum.

judy wood is a strawman. if you look through her site it is designed to give you two options. either believe in the stoopid death ray or straight back the 19 arabs. there are no other options. it is a trap

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=f-Y2kkI0aao

i have accused cb of being judy wood. he/she never came back to the forum. then new sock puppets started turning up singing the same song. i believe they are both working for the government to muddy the waters.

You just hit the nail right on the head! thumbsup.gif

With "friends" like Judy Wood, who needs enemies?

Actually, an interesting pattern often arises with these disinformants; typically, they will push one of two scenarios:

1) That the Twin Towers were demolished by mysterious energy weapons; that the planes were either holograms or illusions created by blue screen technology, and that a race of reptilian "shape shifters" rules the world. While they never provide any real evidence in support of their theories, they dedicate every other waking moment to attacking honest researchers, such as Steven Jones. Essentially, they are killing two birds with one stone: Turning people away from us by creating the impression that 9/11 researchers are crazy, while at the same time assisting with the establishment's systematic attack on 9/11 Truth.

2) That the 9/11 attack was both planned and orchestrated by fanatical Muslims in the Middle East; that the US Government were "waiting" for a new catalyzing event to forward their agenda, and that the Bush administration decided to turn a blind eye (LIHOP). This theory appeases the anti-Bush crowd by suggesting that we can try the current administration for criminal negligence, while at the same time supporting the myth that there are "crazy wild-eyed" Muslims ready and willing to attack us. Therefore, the "justification" for the Patriot Act, the "war on terror", the Department of Homeland Security, and any further "Big Brother" legislation remains in place.

We often ask ourselves Que Bono – who benefits – In this case, the above two scenarios only work in the favor of those who benefitted from the 9/11 attack. People really need to wake up and smell the deception!
jrnsr
Anybody mind if I add 2cents worth? Too bad!

The hydraulics for the grapple are in more danger from getting the rod scraped up, barrel dented and hoses cut than any real risk of melted seals. The distance of the hot steel is pretty far from the cylinder as a whole- now if the rod had lingered for an extended period in a scorching hot enclosed area and then retracted, the integrity of the seal would be compromised, but only to the extent of a leak. I frequently weld on the back end of a cylinder as long as the piston is shoved away, and all too often have to heat the gland region of the barrel red hot to break threads loose, but the only real consequence is the time it takes to dig out melted urethane. That's my experience as the owner of a hydraulics business.

The blast of steam frim the NYC street has only to do with a fractured steam line, nothing to do with a water line.
Also, spraying water on molten metal is not the dangerous aspect, it is when something cold/damp, say a ladel, dips into a pot of molten lead, for instance, to do a leaded joint for cast iron pipe (dating myself) or, yes, musket balls, the moisture on the ladel may flash to steam and you can get a faceful of molten lead spatter. Heating the ladel makes all the difference. That's my experience as a steamfitter.

I found the report of microspheres particularly interesting. Back in college, we made them to study molten metal transfer during welding. It has been many decades, so I can't recall the exact details, but if you hold a welding arc against some basemetal just above a bucket of water, in such a way, the weld metal predominantly drops into the bucket, you generate miniaturized BBs and little tiny hollow spheres of a nature that indicates "outgassing" while molten. What's that got to do with 911? It indicates maybe two out of three things: molten metal experienced an explosion; molten metal was created in an explosion; it does not indicate jetfuel melted or "yielded" steel. That's my experience as a Welding Engineer.
Natasha
QUOTE (genghis6119 @ Aug 17 2007, 08:35 AM)
cb brooklyn spreads these little breadcrumbs around like some kind of a manager for judy wood. it is bunkum.

judy wood is a strawman. if you look through her site it is designed to give you two options. either believe in the stoopid death ray or straight back the 19 arabs. there are no other options. it is a trap

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=f-Y2kkI0aao

i have accused cb of being judy wood. he/she never came back to the forum. then new sock puppets started turning up singing the same song. i believe they are both working for the government to muddy the waters.


I really like Genghis's video a lot. It really made me think. I have however a very different take on DE. I think DE weapons really were used, and I think the conclusion Genghis has reached about DE, is exactly what the Wood cointell operation intended. As I have said before though, I think Genghis is a good man, and I don't think he is involved in the funny business.

I think Wood's job, is to head off inquiry into possible directed energy weapons deployment on 911, by making the very idea look as absurd as her website, and I think BSreg Fred is doing the same exact thing to the NPT and TV fakery investigation. Read this post. Then read this post.
Sanders
Did I already post this once? Or did I type it and then delete it cause I wasn't sure of what Judy Wood was actually promoting?? I think the latter so I'll iterate...

I really don't know what's fact or fiction regarding many of these things, the purpose of any good disinfo campaign of course is to confuse and distract and set people up to ridicule so that no can ever figure out what the truth really is. And the best disinfo campaigns are those that contain a germ of truth in them, something painter has eloquently pointed out before. The proof in the pudding is the "terrorist threat". Warnings came in before 9/11 from all over the place partly because there were real people who thought that there was going to be a Muslim attack on America I believe - in other words, they didn't just fake 9/11, they faked the "planning" of 9/11. There is a video, "the Usual Suspects" in which a few people that were later fingered as 9/11 hijackers expound about their hatred for America - here's my opinion on that, those people weren't fakes, weren't reading a script. They probably believed they were involved in an attack on America. Only a few of the hijackers at the most (like drug-runner Mohammed Atta) knew what was really going on. Even within the CIA or FBI, who's fingerprints are on various attacks such as the Oklahoma City bombing or the first WTC bombing, contain agents that are out there trying to stop terrorism and others who are trying to start it. One hand doesn't know what the other is doing, and you'll never connect the CIA to the terrorists unless you look real hard 'cause they always try to stick a middle man (like, in the case of 9/11, the Pakistani ISI) in the middle. On top of all that you have an unspoken mindset in the highest levels of the US government where "blowback" from a foreign policy that is abusive toward Islamic nations isn't considered an unforseen or unwanted side-affect, but is welcome, 'cause the more real terrorism they can foment the less they have to manufacture themselves. the "terrorist threat" is the mother of all disinfo campaigns, and it is nearly impossible to reveal it for what it is because of the amount of truth that it contains. Most people are used to something being true or false - and have a hard time wrapping their mind around something that is both true and false at the same time.

What does any of this have to do with NPT or Judy Wood's theories? Maybe nothing. But I think this "terrorist threat" ALGORYTHM is a tried, true and very succesful template for other disinfo campaigns and they would not hesitate to use it whenever possible. So whenever I see a successful disinfo campaign, I start looking for the germ of truth in it. Directed Energy Weapons are not fiction, they exist, they're here, they are talking about using them for crowd control and they are in use in Iraq (and from the pictures I've seen I don't think they are just trying to control crowds there). I find it very plausible that this kind of weaponry could have been placed say, in WTC7 and focused on the towers to pulverise concrete and augment thermate charges and more conventional explosives to make sure the towers came down as planned. Utilising a technology like this would have another very advantageous effect - it would leave evidence that could be expanded upon to support crazy theories of "Star Wars Beams" that would have researchers arguing with each other till doomsday - in other words, the basis for a disinfo campaign.

I could be wrong, but this is how I tend to think about these things. If nothing else, it's food for thought I think.
Natasha
Terrific post Sanders. Very well said.


handsdown.gif
lunk
It seems that whenever a
new, clear idea is presented...
out pops a space beam.

from my observations,
lunk
genghis6119
THE REAL QUESTION IS CB,

who are you?.

why do you roam the net, spamming endlessly for woods/.

why do u never mention any other subject?.

why does woods never answer to the hilarious bumbling mistakes she has on her website?.

NO ENGINE BLOCKS were destroyed on 911. why has judy claimed there was for the past 18 months while being aware that the claim is bogus?.

why doesn't she retract or verify?.

why does judy think it's strange that fabric and plastic burn before steel?.

why does she think broken laminated windscreens look strange?

why does she keep claiming the spire 'dustifies' when it so clearly drops?.

ARE YOU JUDY WOODS?.
CocaineImportAgency
Re: "Molten Metal" .... in the recent David Shayler/BBC Conspiracy vid`... there is a reference to the temp` of molten steel being 1500 degrees and i remember reading somewhere once that the steel specified in the Twin Towers was certified to 2700!... anybody now what it really is!?!

dunno.gif
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