IT IS VERY IMPORTANT THAT YOU READ THIS THREAD FIRST.



Hi painter, and everybody,


I am a new member. I am not a pilot, and I am no scientist by a long shot either. I promise to do my very best, to be both respectful and patient though, and I think I have something to offer.

A lot of people have been extremely turned off, to the ideas Fred and Killtown have been misrepresenting and purposely presenting very poorly, and I hope it is not too late to help undo the damage they have done.

I sure wish I had read, the thread this split off from, quite a bit sooner!

I was still very new to the ideas Fred and company were presenting, and I had just finished watching his 911 Octopus movie, for like the 10th time, when I finally joined their forum just a couple of months ago.

Back when I was a member of Killtown's forum, before they banned me for political reasons, I remember that Fred started a thread about what happened here.

As usual when one of them gets banned, they go to their forum and begin bragging about being banned, by the "nasty fascists" at LC and Pilots etc, and they then rave on and on about how 'they' don't ban people for political reasons.

The hell they don't though. They banned me, because I noticed this pattern, and I began asking them about the other HUGE PR blunders they ALL make on a regular basis also.

I also believe that the videos Fred has been making, are carefully crafted to be easily debunked later, when whoever oversees their modified limited hangout operation [cough Rick Siegel] gives them the word.

Please go here, and read my Rick Siegel's Lunatic Fringe: Todays NAZIS smear you as antisemtic thread on the Loose Change Forum about this.

Odd indeed, how the "nasty fascists" at LC, have left it up for a few days now. But if it's gone, then please go to my Youtube channel, linked to in my signature, and then read my comments section etc.


Thank you for letting me have my say. I hope I can be of service here.

Best to all of you,

Natasha

Hi Natasha. Welcome to Pilots.

Welcome, Natasha! Glad to see you here

Welcome Natasha...

Excellent Avatar...


Dodge This.....!



FYI... we dont take this NPT at WTC very seriously. .at least i dont. But in the spirit of the First Amendment... as long as it is a respectable approach... they can post as much as they like. We only ban trolls (as much as disinfo types on LCF and other govt loyalists sites would have you believe otherwise)

However, im still waiting for one of these NPT types to put their name on their work.

Thanks for the warm welcome guys.

painter I want to respond to what you wrote below.




While I basically agree with your above statement, I am yet convinced that many of the videos Fred, aka BSreg, has been making, are carefully crafted to be easily debunked later.

Now of course, if he is an actual COINTEL op, operating with a limited hangout team, as I believe is the case, he surely does believe in NPT because he knows for a fact exactly how 911 was done.

He very well may even have been involved in carrying out 911.

My guess is that he was part of the WESCAM Media Interface Operations Team, which I will now call WMIOT , and he has been ordered to clean this up OR ELSE, because he did such a shitty job that sad morning. Maybe. Hell. I don't know. My intuition is spot on more often than not though.

I mean look at those poorly faked videos. My lord they stink, and Fred has so many times, I believe, even beat himself over it in his videos.

Please do read my Rick Siegel's Lunatic Fringe thread on Loose Change folks. I have presented evidence there, which when taken all together, I believe discloses a real pattern of intent.

Ask yourselves this.

Why has the government gone to so much trouble, just to discredit something, that is not even credible in the first place?

I mean think about it.

Somebody even dosed David Shayler, the ex MI5 OP who was such an incredibly effective speaker for 911 truth, with some sort of powerful drug to drive him over the edge. Is it just a coincidence, that they did this to him, soon after he began speaking about NPT and media complicity? I doubt it very much. They only seek to destroy, whoever and whatever, is a real threat to them.

Hey 911moventdotorg boys. Dodge this.

Hi johndoeX,

Excelent web handle. Thanks for the warm greeting too. I just cut it to save space.

I deeply apreciate, and respect, your comitment to free speech and open discourse, and as well I fully agree that I am respoinsible to show respect and mind my manners. This is your turf after all. Though we disagree on some things, right now, I am sure we are in complete agreement on much much more.

This does indeed seem to be a fine forum, and after reading the thread this was split off from, I am indeed impressed.

By the way. Though I don't know how to make videos. I do use my real name. None of our identities are hidden from the NWO. We can only hide from each other .... johndoeX.

Thanks again for the welcome.

Pleasure... and please call me Rob...

Rob Balsamo
Co-founder
pilotsfor911truth.org

That was my first impression. But it is hard to tell. These characters do seem genuinely 'adolescent' to me. Remember, Dylan Avery was 19 when he began making Loose Change. So it is also conceivable in my mind that they just don't 'get it'. However, the fact that this is being shepherded by Siegal -- who I once trusted but have come to distrust enormously -- puts it into a class of uncertainty. I'll just say I think your suspicions are well founded.

I say that about myself as well. However, I have to acknowledge that my intuition is also sometimes very wrong. I'm learning to not jump to conclusions.

Believe me, I have. I believe there is something very real here -- something worthy of our time and discussion. You might want to take a look at this thread started months ago: http://pilotsfor911truth.org/forum...showtopic=2504 The document it is quoting was published decades before 9/11 -- and so we can be certain that the amount of interfacing they can do now is far superior to anything being discussed openly then. This came up briefly in another thread that I've now lost track of and don't know where to find. (One thing I don't like about this invisionfree forum software is it doesn't allow you to keep track of your posts unless you started the topic thread.)

You seem very sure of this -- what is your source?

If I may, I'd like to make a suggestion. The OP and thread title has to do with commentary about how this forum is moderated. That is actually its topic. I understand the cross-over but rather than taking this way off topic with another topic, I'd appreciate it if you'd start a new threat about these subjects that we can reply in. It just saves us a lot of confusion in tracking discussion -- and would be better with a more appropriate thread subject title.

Will you consider that?

Thanks

Good man Rob. B)

Ms. Natasha Thompson
Fort Wayne, Indiana
nobody special

You are doing a good thing here.

At your service sir.

Matt
South Bend, IN

I don't think Loose Change has a direct link to Fred's pals over at 911movementdotorg. If there is one I am unaware of it.

Fred's pals are the ones shepherded by Siegel, and I believe theirs is a CIA operation.

The Loose Change boys are shepherded by Alex Jones. I suspect that Jones is Army Intelligence or DIA, working with MI6, but I have only a feeling about that and no real evidence. He sure is into FUD though. What agenda does that serve?

I mean it is one thing to inform people, and it is quite another to bark relentlessly, be afraid be very afraid! As a Christian, he should also know that the people need to be warned to HIDE in the millions of acres of American wilderness, rather than hint that they should resist with arms as he does. Resistance will meet with death and imprisonment in the camps. They have said that they want to reduce the population. They clearly also want more police state powers, and an armed insurrection will swiftly accomplish both for the NWO.



The most fundamental, glaring evidence, is this.

If videos depict planes, doing something impossible, then surely the videos must be fake.

Proof exists that flimsy aluminum aircraft, with such low sectional density made also of brittle low density materials, could not, as the vidoes depict, smoothly penetrate steel walls and several steel reinforced concrete floors, edge on at that, without so much as breaking the wing tanks or shearing the wings off. So then the videos must be fake.

Here is proof, from a very knowledgable person, that the planes could not have smoothly flown right in, only to explod after they entered the building. That is just not possible. You know better than that.

Have you seen that Haiti UFO video everyone is talking about. Now see how easy it was to fake. I am sure, that what the military had in 2001, was far superior to what is available to us even now.




Common sense and intuition applied to the available evidence.

David Shayler, as an ex MI5 OP was very credible, and more and more people began listening to him. The many videos of his powerful testimony, coupled with his calm manner and his command of the facts, even while under pressure during live TV interviews side by side with those very skeptical, certainly seems to confirm that he was psychologically sound.

Haven't you heard? Shortly after David Shayler begins to speak about NPT and people start listenming, he suddenly looses it, and then he literally declares himself the Messiah.

The video below does not make him appear to be psychotic. Rather it suggests that drugs and hypnosis, over some period of time, were used.

See this brief video interview of David Shayler under mind control.

He is clearly under mind control in that video. He himself said, that he was led, to his new awareness, by a "psychic". I think this psychic is really an MI6 psychologist and hypnotist. If they disappeared, or killed him, that would only deepen his credibility wouldn't it?

People would say. Holy CRAP, David Shayler disappeared, was murdered, died under suspicious circumstances! It must be true! The best shot MI6 had, was to contain Shayler by destroying his credibility, and what better way than to make him an obvious loopy old crank.

By the way. The Siegel mission, Fred and the boys, just dismisses him now as a tragic figure. None of this has occurred to them. What a coincidence.


They didn't take him out because he is a threat to 911 Truth. They took him out because he is a threat to the real 911 perps.



Oh no! I really goofed up. I am so sorry. OK. I don't feel comfy starting a thread here. I am not a pilot or anything like that.

It has been a pleasure gentlemen. Thank you for your extreme patience with me.

Fred and the guys sure lied about you folks! Then again, it was obvious, that Fred wanted to be banned. That way he did not have to withstand your enquiry about his FAKED video. That is obviously what that was about, and the propaganda value back at their "forum" is priceless. Next time don't let him pull that ruse on you. OK?

Banning them only serves their agenda.

See you around town. B)

Natasha

A HOOSIER! South Bend at that. Greetings Matt.

LoL. Well, as you see, I've split your contribution out into its own thread.

Most of the forum members are not pilots or aviation professionals, so no need to be concerned about that. The Pilots for 9/11 Truth organization is comprised of pilots and aviation professionals. I may yet split out the greets and welcomes and put that in the Welcome forum. It is better to do this cleaning up now before the thread gets too long.

Best

I wasn't suggesting there was a direct connection between LC and "movement" or "researchers." My point was that these videos are often put together by enthusiastic but not very sophisticated young men. Sorry, I don't know what "FUD" is. My intuition tells me you may be right about the AI/DIA connection, but why MI6?

This is one of the things that I don't like about the so called "patriots movement" in general. AJ is the prime example but we could put quite a few others in this category. We need to be empowered not just driven nuts by the looming catastrophe.

Well, I don't know about hiding in the wilderness -- I guess if your highest priority is 'survival' that might make a little sense but not for most people who are used to microwaving their pre-packaged dinner. I'm not in this for survival. Whether I survive this or not is sort of irrelevant to me.

That is a reasonable statement. However, the question is did the planes do something impossible? and that is the thing to be proven, not assumed.

Well, I think that is correct but the simple fact of the matter is I'm not yet certain of it in the same way I'm certain of other things. Perhaps I need to be educated more. I also need an explanation to BoneZ's question regarding the steel bent inward indicating that something DID pass into the structure. Unless, of course, we're back, once again, in the realm of VTF -- which your PI link above has set out to disprove.

Yes. This has been discussed in a thread in this forum:
http://pilotsfor911truth.org/forum...showtopic=8323


First of all, since you are new, you don't yet realize how much of this kind of thing gets discussed in this and other forums outside of this "alternative theories" sub forum. There is a thread on the Shaylelr incident somewhere. I'm too pooped to hunt for the link right now. [ EDIT: here is the link to that thread: http://pilotsfor911truth.org/forum...showtopic=8267 ]

It isn't ignorance of the case that brought up the question. What I asked for was evidence of your contention, specifically, that he was drugged or manipulated. I understand you are intuitive and one smart cookie. So am I. So are others here. However, it doesn't serve us to go about saying that we know things that we merely suspect. I see this "overreaching" (drawing conclusions before hard evidence is available to confirm them) a lot here and I've seen it come back to bite us in the butt. You say such and so is "clearly" true -- as if no further evidence is needed. Well, not so fast. It is one thing to state a suspiscion that such-and-so may be true based on observation of numerous indicators; it is quite another to say that something is, unequivocally, fact based solely on what seems "reasonable" from those indicators. There not only "may be" but most certainly "are" many, many things that we do not know about Shayler and his motivations. And until we know more anyone can generate a hypothesis based on these indicators. The hypothesis is the thing to be proven.

All that said, I understand your point regarding Shayler and the seeming coincidence of this happening after he began to speak about the NPT. Yes, that is certainly suspicious. No argument there. As you get to know me better you'll learn that, like all good Capricorns (I'm actually a triple Capricorn), I move slowly but relentlessly most of the time. Now and then I'll take a big JUMP that leaves everyone else in the dust but usually that is after months of careful observation.

Well, banning them may very well serve their agenda. It also serves mine -- which is to keep this forum as free from disrupters and trolls as possible.

Best

OK. Thanks painter.

Lets see if this thread dies a lonely death now. I think it may. What do I know though?

LoL. I don't think that is going to happen. :ph43r:

Welcome, Natasha

I have to agree with painter that it's better not to jump to conclusions. Intent and motivation is very difficult to gauge, and there is usually at least one more likely scenario than one can imagine. Like trying to catch wild geese in a house of mirrors. Still, interesting thread.

You probably wont like this at all. Yet from my experience with The Boys From NPT, it is not silly supposition, and I ask you to weigh it carefully.


The Carmen Taylor photos, and the Michael Hezarkhania ghost plane video, is THE hot topic all over the place right now. What has really got everybody buzzing though, is a video about it, made by BSregistration aka Fred.

Basically Fred, who threw a tanty fit purposely to get himself banned from here, to avoid some hard questions about his own video FAKERY, is saying in his video that the Michael Hezarkhania video, is totally fake, and not even the buildings are real. Fred says, in his video, that there is no way that it could have been shot from where it is claimed that they were, and this is now THE subject everyone is furiously discussing all over the place.

Over here on Killtowns NPT forum in the Calling Carmen Taylor, Calling Carmen Taylor thread.

A thread here on Pilots Cnn Fake Footage: More Proof For The Hard Headed.

And my personal favorite presided by Factfinder General, a "no planer" whom I consider to be brilliant, I think REALLY NAILS IT over on the progressive independent forum I am banned from. Damn it! I am sure there are other places it is being, debated, flamed over and discussed also.

As you know, I believe Fred and Killtown are up to no good, and they being absolute masters of controversy as a diversionary tactic and consummate disrupters; I suspect are not working either alone or without a net, on the web. Consequently the fact that Fred's video was being exposed RIGHT HERE ON PILOTS as a clever FAKE, in the thread I linked to above, is now no longer being discussed anywhere at all that I know of.

So now, I want to bring another aspect of this Taylor & Hezarkhania discussion to your attention. This is something all of you need to know. The voice of Fred, aka BSregistration of the 911 movement(.)org, can easily be recognized narrating this video which purports to link Michael Hezarkhania, who filmed the famous ghost plane video, to a terrorist organization in IRAN.

Now what "news source" does 'that' remind you of? Rather FOXY of Fred and Killtown I think. These Two Foxes are even now stirring up sh*t, in the Calling Carmen Taylor thread linked to above, of course 'all over' Carmen Taylor, who like Michael Hezarkhania, is apparently considered by the CIA to be an expendable asset who knows just a bit too much. I wonder. Will they also throw old Wolfywitz under the bus along with them somehow? Now there would be two birds with one stone, both the Jews and Muslims can be darted, and surely we Christians will soon follow after. In fact I know our sons and daughters soon will, because THE NAZIS plan to begin drafting them, to go kill and die in IRAN.

Well, at the very least, "the evidence" presented by Fred and KT may all prove to be fallacious, thus further tainting no plane and 911 media complicity evidence, ONCE AGAIN ACCIDENTALLY ON PURPOSE, but surely it already holds strong propaganda value helping the NAZIS make a case for war against Iran. These CIA guys are just so madly brilliant! They accomplish so much evil, with so little effort, and their plans are so designed to accomplish many different things at once. So what of the usual plausible deniability factor? Well "Fred" and "Killtown", can of course just disappear, because neither is using their real name.

I believe it is clearly another Rick Siegel CIA/DIA production. The fuses are lit. The timers are running, and the clock is running out. Whatever they are up to is being carefully ignored, because their associates are everywhere, distracting everybody as usual.

They are so good at what they do. Wish it were not so.

Who is this Ashley person, whom Rick Siegel claims to believe, that I really am? I honestly will have to Google that. Rick Rajter Always Helpful or Two-Faced MIT Mole? Oh my. Ricky Siegel says that Ashley, who is supposedly me, is antisemitic, as is this other Ricky he is smearing, and of course so are all of his "ex NPT friends", Siegel says.

The apparent rift, between Siegel and company, is as phony as their collective dedication to 911 truth. They cooked it up in response to my having pressured them, at the KT/Slick/Quest [Siegel's really] forum, to distance themselves, for NPT's sake from Siegel, because he absolutely must have purposely engineered the NPT PR BLUNDER of the year!

I refer to Siegel's public attack, using the alias "Amanda Reckonwith", upon John Albanese and a 911 Widow on their, i.e. KT, BSreg, Slick, Quest and Siegel et all's, 9/11 Researchers Blog.

I hounded them mercilessly, for days, to dump their long term patron Rick Siegel, because his public display of unjustified and heinous ad homonym fury, resulted in the now infamous '911 Lunatic Fringe' article in the NY POST. I began to get over it real fast though, as I learned that the author of the NY POST npt hit piece, was written by a personal friend of Siegel's, one Adrea Peyser, and so by the time their PHONY parting of the vays (sic) took place, I was already sadder yet wiser.

Now about my supposed antisemitism Mr. Siegel.

I am a Christian woman of Jewish heritage. Though I am not a big fan of Israel's racist State policy regarding the Muslim people, or it's GROSS mistreatment of the Palestinians, I unlike many in the "911 movement" most definitely do NOT lay the blame for 911 at Israel's door.

Neither do I, for one minute, believe that Jews are evil bad people. I take each individual 'as' an individual. I am also fully convinced, that there is no such thing as even a bad ethnic group, and there is but one race, human.

Isn't it ironic, how the WW2 Nazis would smear people as being "evil dirty jews", while todays Nazis, smear people as being "dirty evil antisemites"? One way or another it is Judea who suffers, for the first SHOAH [Holocaust], and now soon for the second SHOAH [Holocaust] being perpetrated, by the same evil spirit of the same evil intent, on a different day, in different bodies.

The more things change.

Hi Painter and Sanders.

Welcome to my world, casandra complex in full bloom, I trudge on through the fog.

I pray that the people of Iran will be safe, and also that Iraq's people will somehow keep their hearts, from being shattered beyond all repair.

There is a HELL, and it is for those who have engineered this satanic cruel monstrosity, that is todays geopolitic.

Crazy as it sounds. I can sense that they are doing something horrible to Iran right this very minute. Remember this date, and later it will become known. Saturday August 18, 2007, 4:04 am US EST. Oh it isn't pretty. Not at all.

For those who don't like stating at the beginning.

For the record. I believe the following to be true, and I believe the lack of real plane crashes on 911 to be self evident. If something that "looks like a plane", does something that an airplane could not possibly do in real life, then it is only reasonable to suspect, that what people "thought they saw" was not really an airplane.

I also believe that Fred, who is always very calm cool and patient normally, really decided to get himself banned by throwing a tanty fit, so he could avoid the legitimate questions about his own video fakery. Fred and Killtown both, do this acting out on a regular basis, purposely to make NPT people look like mental cases. I believe both of them are OPs, whose job is to make NPT look as bad as humanly possible, and in part this is done by making debunkable videos to discredit NPT.

Fred's last video even has an Oreo cookie commercial in it, and he compound that outrage, with a ridiculously transparent justification for doing that.

There are some much better posts above this one.

Interesting thread.
Welcome Natasha, nice to have you here.

Hi Natascha,
belated welcome from Europe as well.

I was online when you registered yesterday (your handle 'Natasha' caught my eye ) and I am still chewing on a lot of your eloquent statements.

It's funny that one of the first books I read in 2002 about 9/11 was a NPT-book from an Austrian author, who works on camera positions and impossible flight paths etc. This is why I have kept an open mind re NPT, but up to now, as far as the WTC is concerned, I can't see any logic in countless faked (amateur-) videos, or sophisticated equipment to create the impact holes for example.

We'll see.

Looking forward to substantial news from your end (i.e. about your prediction re Iran) : Zap

Just for the record (since I won't be around for most of the day) to me, "uncertainty" is a more productive state than "belief." To me "the lack of real plane crashes on 9/11" is not self evident but the evidence of the crashes is "suspicious" and worthy of further investigation -- especially for those of us who are not knew to this research. However, I do not jump to conclusions. I want to see evidence or at least discussion from knowledgeable and reasonable people (without insults and slander).

I certainly believe it is a possibility that what you say about Fred and KT is true. Then again they may simply be doing what you may be doing -- jumping to conclusions based on suppositions drawn from unverified evidence -- something I see some people in this movement do and something I see the government do all the time. Unlike many, I can hold a lot of ambiguity in my thinking. I don't have to come to a conclusion, I simply note that there are contradictory possibilities. I hold these ideas as an "open question." As I go on, hopefully new information will come to light which will help things become more clear. I tend to be less "convinced" by "reasonable" argument and more convinced by evidence.

Natasha, what I'd be interested in learning more about from you is some of the information provided in Fred's "Full Spectrum Treason" video. What I see there is a presentation of some very interesting information which states emphatically that 'such-and-so' is true. It isn't presented as this may be true but that this is true -- and that is where my suspicions regarding all this got turned up to a full burn.
----------------------------------------------------
Stated as fact:
• On 9/11 Fake Videos were shown on TV to Shock and Awe the World
• These videos demostrated the effectiveness of Futre Cmbat Systems or FCS
• FCS uses UAV's or Unmanned Aerial Vehicles
• The pictures from the UAV are entered into a georeferenced database
• Warfighters a and operations planners can then create fake camera views from any angle
• These fake videos can be used for mission planning and simulation
• They can also be used for Military Deception Operations
• On 9/11 a team of covert operators hijacked the airwaes
• Real images from New York City were composited with georeferenced images from the FCS
• The result was a digital city: Fake Manhattan Syline and Simulated Planes
• The public is unaware of the long history of UAVs (Unmanned Aerial Vehicles)
• UAVs can photograph an entire city (Their small size make them hard to see)
• Combined with other technologies they play a key role in military deception (There are holograms on your ATM card)
• UAVs, Satellites and Ground Crews converted New York City into TIGER data
• The NRO and NGA are major intelligence agencies
• Their offices were evacuated on 9/11 for a scheduled fire drill of PLANES CRASHING INTO BUILDINGS
• TIGER: Topologically Integrated Geographic Encoding and Referencing
• With Manhattan converted to TIGER Data, the 9/11 Operators could generate any camera angle they pleased
• The video images of buildings were simply 2-D cutouts on your TV screen
• The FCS TIGER system allows a simulated camera view to be shown
• These cut out images of buildings allow the 9/11 Media Hoax perpetrators to generate video from any angle, using simulated camera angles
• The cut outs allow the perpetrators to obscure key features
• Damning evidence was thus concealed from the general public
• The public was shown little more than cartoons of the attacks
• The dozens of helicopters and scenes of hundreds of jumpers were hidden
• Actors and professional spies were hired to lay the part of "eyewitnesses"
• With the result that the "plane crash" explanation was the only one that made sense
• Les explore georeferencing to learn exactly how the 9/11 videos were faked
• On 9/11 the regular media helicopters were ordered to fly away from Manhattan
• Regular feeds from the media choppers were hijacked and replaced with feeds from the military control rooms
• The plane crashes were simply simulated screen shots from the FCS system
• The actual attack was high-tech in nature. The building was destroyed but the paper was left unburned
• Special weapons were used to destroy the WTC complex without destroying all of lower Manhattan
• The debris pile was amazingly small as concrete and steel turned into ultra-fine particles
• The high incidence of cancers among rescue workers and the decontamination efforts at Ground Zero corroborate the use of exotic weapons
• The US Government and EPA lied to New Yorkers
• The strange nature of the damage confirms the fact that exotic weapons were used
• The public was shown experimental video on 9/11
• The video wasn't real: It concealed what happened
• This is a PSYOP technique
[ Screen Shot of "Information Superiority"]
• To Understand 9/11 You Must Understand the Media Hoax (otherwise you are on the path to Nowhere)
[Screen Shot: Think See Do ] [Screen shot: Offensive Counterinformation: Disrupt, Destroy, Deceive]
[Screen shot: Deception Execution Cycle: « CONSTANTLY PRACTICE TIGHT SECURITY DURING ALL STAGES OF DECEPTION EXECUTION » Leadership decision to terminate, alter or plan new deception operation >> Coordinate initial deception and execution timing >> Ensure deceptions story communications method appropriately effective for target audience >> Vertical and horizontal coordination insuring up to date integration between real world ops and deception ops >> Monitor deception operations via intelligence and compare to current rules of engagement. Force protection (illegible), etc. >>Compare termination concept criteria to current intelligence >> Leadership decision to terminate, alter or plan . . .]
[ list of credits ]
• 911 TV Fakery | Trauma Conditioning Repetition Hypnosis
----------------------------------------------------

Ok, now what struck me about this is that this brings to public view some specific details of information warfare not commonly known by most people. That such technology exits. That such information warfare programs exist, and son on. AT THE SAME TIME certain assertions are made which are not verified and which, I believe, in certain instances, are not factual. In any case they are not proven as fact, merely stated as fact. To me, this looks like a very well crafted piece of disinformation because it reveals something while simultaneously making it seem not credible from its source precisely because it does not prove its stated assertions. Again, this is the difference between "may be" and "is". A thing "may be" true and yet "not" be true; if something "is" true it must be verifiability so, not merely possible. Not everything that is "possible" is "actual". It is possible for me to be dead but, as of this moment, I am not. -- But of course you don't know that for a fact. Perhaps I've been offed and someone else has taken my place.

-- See what I mean?

What I do believe is that in the next 9/11 (or god help us, whatever) the kind of technology and rules of engagement outlined above WILL BE implemented even MORE strongly than on 9/11 itself. It is THIS that makes the information important -- if we can pick the gems from out of the turds and use them to learn more.

Hello and welcome to the forum, Natasha. Interesting posts from you so far.

Thx Painter!
Another excellent summary and analysis especially as you're just 'in and out' today.

There is one more aspect, why NPT, fake videos, TIGER system, secret weapon systems etc. must be subject to critical scrutiny:

It is difficult enough to inseminate obvious things like 9/11 being an inside job or controlled demolition of the WTC into intelligent people's perception (not to mention sheeples' minds).

In my experience from many discussions 'outlandish' claims, that are not carefully based on evidence are extremely counter-productive.
It facilitates the wide spread reflex to tick off unpleasant topics (i.e. as 'conspiracy theories') and return to cosy 'business as usual'.

You started an interesting thread, Natasha.
Zap

Hi Carey and Zapzarap,

Thanks so much for the warm welcome. I am so glad that you are keeping an open mind about these things. I hope I can be of some help here regarding that.

Really, mainly, I am working to undo the damage done by certain 'professed advocates' of npt and media 911 complicity through video hoaxing. Fortunately the very acting out and odious falsifications, of such as Fred and KT, well serves to actually help make the case, for what really they are actively seeking to suppress.

Please see my following post about these very things.

It is so good to finally be among mature adults of open mind.

I am very grateful to be here.

Thank you all so very much.

I was going post this in the other thread this one was split from. Then, silly me, I realized it would have been off topic there.

I hope it is OK for me to transplant it here.





Hi Quest,

I don't either, and in fact they have been very patient here. Fred, Killtown, and company, have clearly been lying through their teeth about this forum and many others also.

Clearly Fred purposely got himself banned here, in part, so he could avoid legitimate questions about 'his own' video fakery. Fred and Killtown both, do this on a regular basis, and I am convinced they do it purposely.

It is for me now impossible to explain away, as just well meaning mistakes and quirks of personality, their tremendous effectiveness in making any and all involved, in investigating the evidence for 911 media plane crash video manipulation, to look as bad as humanly possible. Their MO is just too clear and persistent, and now to make this even more clear, it is even obvious that are making their video evidence easily debunkable.

Fred and his pals Nico, Kt and Slick, under various other pseudonyms also, have long taken good evidence for media fakery and npt, and purposely sullied it with overtly offensive material, e.g. porn and annoyingly loud bad music, and now lately Fred has even added a new twist, by incorporating product advertisements into his videos. Fred's last video for example has an Oreo cookie commercial in it, and he compounded this outrage with a ridiculously transparent justification for it. Hit the link and see for yourself.

In addition, as is being discussed here, Fred also shrouds known good evidence, within a subtle aura of disingenuousness, designed to softly hint of duplicity, subconsciously, even within the minds of his loyal fans. Such tactics are meant to promote cognitive dissonance, in the mids of his specialized audience which is by nature justifiably wary of such things, and surely this can be no accident. Such is clearly the deployment of sophisticated techniques of psychological warfare, and as such are not intended merely to turn off those who are skeptical. They are not merely suppressing evidence and discrediting such research. They are also conditioning the minds of their fans, their ex fans, those merely curious, those interested of open mind, and those already offended by them on multiple occasions previously, in ways I can only guess at now. These guys are highly effective vectors of the ongoing 911 psychological operation, being beyond any doubt highly trained paid professionals, whose job is to discredit and suppress the very ideas they claim to be advancing.

Here is another long standing tactic of Fred and his coworkers.

When discussions on various forums about these things, and their sophisticated video manipulations harder to discern, begin to take place, they as a group then go to these forums trying to sort through it all, and they then act outrageously in order to even further tarnish, any and all, who investigate the 911 media PSYOP. In addition to such tarnishings, they with great skill derail discussions of what they are actually doing, by causing people to focus on their bad behavior, and thus we unwittingly help them obtain their intended objective.

From my perspective, these things strengthen the case for the absence of WTC plane crashes and media complicity in the conspiracy, and such also indicates that the conspiracy goes far deeper and wider than many assume. These guys are just way waaaaay too effective, to be either amateurs, or innocent of dark intent, and surely they are not sent except really to fight against the very truth of the absence of WTC plane crashes and media complicity in the conspiracy.


Dodge this Fred.

Fred can't "dodge this", he's been banned. Maybe he has a sock puppet?

But, let's be careful to not attack others - getting us to do so is the prime reason for certain misinformative clips and theories being perveyed in my opinion.

It's a fine line - all I'm saying, Natasha, is it's usually better, in my opinion, to give people the benefit of the doubt. Animosity is contageous, and the perps count on that. If, as I believe, agents are promoting dissinformative theories in order to get us to argue and attack each other, we should be careful not to oblige them. People that put out what you or I might call "dissinformation" may not even realise that they are doing work in the service of outsiders - it is so easy to manipulate people and their opinions if you know how to do it.

Again, it's a fine line, and I don't want to come off as being critical of your stance Natasha, you seem very well informed. Just, ...

"When the power of love overcomes the love of power, then we will have peace."

(That doesn't mean that "junk-science" shouldn't be addressed straight on.)

2 cents

Hi Sanders,

I missed your post somehow last night. Please pardon me. I was even more tired then than I am now after a few hours of sleep.

I have been reading your posts, and I appreciate both your carefulness and your objectivity. I will try to emulate you more in future. For really, I feel 'much better now' , after getting this stuff out there. I have really been so worried, that what I believe to be a crafty ploy, would succeed in burying the real truth.

I believe that exposing media involvement in the conspiracy, their use of fake plane vids and false witnesses, is of tremendous importance. For one thing the "plane" videos are the only remaining articles of tangible evidence, and nothing will speed the nations recovery from the spell they have been so long under, than to expose the media's role in the 911 conspiracy.

Why else does counter-intelligence, that's disclosure if think about it, fight so hard against this? Why else have they somehow, drugs hypnosis?, reduced ex MI5 truther David Shayler to a rambling fool now claiming to be the messiah after he began teaching npt?

One thing remains clear. The plane videos depict airplanes, doing things that are simply impossible, and so those videos are far more than suspect.

We are all just singular, seemingly insignificant people. But we can be powerful - India was freed from British rule by a single man. We can effect change by sticking to our guns, refusing to cooperate (that includes refusing to get into brawls as they would wish), doing our homework and spreading the word. What else can we do? The courts are against us, the media is against us. We have to educate everyone - one person at a time. Here's what we have going for us though - the numbers increase exponentially if we do our job and don't fall into the traps that have been set for us.

Thank you for your posts!

I appreciate the patient admonitions, made by both you and Sanders, that I need to take greater care to be objective and to refrain from jumping to conclusions. You guys are right. I really do need to be more circumspect, and I am going to make a real effort to do so.

I can agree, that sometimes in some things, uncertainty is a more productive state than belief. Is not though your statement that, " "uncertainty" is a more productive state than "belief." ", yet something which you believe? You do seem very certain about that, and your statement taken literally clearly implies that certainty is a product of, or an indication of, a state of belief.

Now would I be foolish, to "look beyond" your literal statement, to then "sense", feel or "know", what your intended meaning really is? I mean how could I be certain? How do any of us 'know' anything? How can we "bust a move" during a crisis or when in danger, when there is no time for thinking, if we do not accept our uncertainty and believe whatever it is that guides us at such times? I beleive your statement is just such a guiding belief. Not untrue, it points to something beyond it's literal meaning, and it circumvents linear thought. That my friend is the essence of belief. Are you certain, that you didn't rather mean, "uncertainty" is a more productive state than "certainty." I believe you need to think this through a bit more.

I can say I think, and to my mind, that infers some amount of uncertainty, with which I have no quarrel. I can say also that I believe, and to my mind that infers neither an utter lack of uncertainty, nor any sort of absolute certainty closed to further possibility, but rather merely less uncertainty.




I do not believe it true that anything is possible. Is tolerance for ambiguity really a virtue now? While I think wisdom requires us to suspend judgement at times, at other times it demands that we choose, and yet of course choices are not made between two always. The wise will balk when presented with an either or, black and white choice, and they wont be pressured into deciding right now, if it is not absolutely necessary.

As for how government relates to this. This monster we have now ruling us, seems really to more each day enforce ambiguity, by means I don't claim to understand, and for this our society just accepts accepts accepts more each day most unwisely. We are given false choices between several identical candidates now, and people just accept that even though they know better. People who know far better also accept video evidence, presented by a media they well know to be untrustworthy, of events which if by some miracle is not impossible is yet extremely improbable. The ability of people to accept ambiguity, while useful at times is not a virtue, and sadly it has even become a vehicle to secure our misplaced obedience, and terrifying inaction in the face of the greatest crisis our nation has ever faced.

A supposed argument, devoid of evidence to support it, is not an appeal to reason. If an appeal made, whether supposedly to either reason or emotion, does cause one to think and not merely get emotional, then I think it is an appeal to reason. It think it reasonable to conclude, that an appeal to reason may also stir up emotion, and sometimes it would even have to.



You know I do painter. I noticed that KT Fred and the guys began to change a great deal, and before they banned me, I even said I thought maybe some sort of mind control or psychotronic weapon was being used against them. Now I realize that I just began to snap out of it is all. Fred's 911 Octopus is what got me back into 911 activism. I had given up trying, a couple of years before, because it was like talking to a wall. It was always the controlled Truther party line everywhere. I was fascinated with Octopus. I watched it, at least ten times, even getting up in the middle of the night sometimes just to watch it. I Frankly liked Fred. One day however, I realized that I had no reason to at all, since I had never met him and new nothing about him. It began to dawn on me, that it was something about his voice in his videos, and that made me begin to look at his work in a whole new way.

I noticed that Fred's videos have changed a great deal lately. While the one above seems technically better than his previous work, the content of his last two videos I find blatantly offensive. I read last night, that Fred has made some very offensive 911 videos containing porn before, and the entire thing just seemed like a crude parody of a 911 doc.

I did not base my conclusions about Fred on this video. In fact I have never watched it past the first minute or so, and that is because by the time it came out, I had become very suspicious about his sound tracks. Think me crazy if you like. I believe that his videos, are very far from, the innocent amateur productions that they seem to be.



Yes I agree. I am certain they will do something very dramatic eventually, and yet they are using a far more sinister and insidious weapon against us already. Have you never wondered how the people can remain so complacent and blind to the extreme danger they are in? The most powerful and evil weapon, ever developed, is the television. I think Fred's "ministry" is directed against hard cases, who don't watch TV, those in the 911 truth movement and the politically aware on the Internet, and as such it is extremely powerful not to mention very very dangerous.

Thanks for the warm welcome georgie101.

It is good to be here also.

Sanders thanks for appreciating my contribution. I really like your attitude.



I have to go offline now. I really need some time off.

I rarely come in this section, and briefly browsed this thread tonight and last night...

but i just gotta say... love being part of this admin/mod team..

Professional, courteous, mature and respectful... yet know how to take out the trash should the need be...


Great job guys... and thank you..

Thirty years ago, about the time I began to loose my fear of becoming literate (up to that time I had been, more than you would likely suspect), I was reading a lot. I did not grow up reading a as many children do today. I did not like words and did not trust them, and largely still don't. Words are spells -- which is why "spelling" a word [weird] correctly is so important. It's a long story -- if you look at my "esotericism" thread pinned in this forum, it may give you some clues.

I remember reading one statement that really stuck in my mind. As I recall, it went something like this: "If we speak from what we know without doubt to be true, then we can communicate." Tthe quote is from Krishnamurti but I've lost track of which book it is in and have not been able to find it so I'm not sure I'm quoting it exactly. But perhaps that doesn't really matter. What matters is reading those words left a very strong impression on me. The meaning that I ascribed to them put myself into question: Indeed, what DO I know, without doubt to be true?

Some years later I came upon another group of words I would like to share with you now:

---

I take all true skepticism to be the search for a quiet centre within the mind that can resist the pull of subjective opinion, mechanical logic, and authoritarian belief. Nearer to that centre of the mind, it seems that a double certainty appears -- the certainty that it is humanly possible to know reality directly and the certainty that there are infinitely higher levels of being to be served beyond and within the human frame. Thus does a form of faith arise alongside the rejection of belief.

In my world, knowledge is one thing and understanding is another thing, related through being. I can acquire information and derive knowledge from it but if there is not a corresponding growth in being, then my understanding will necessarily be limited. To understand more, it is not enough to gain more knowledge -- something in me has to change in order for understanding to grow. If you've seen the movie "V" you are made witness to Ev's transformation. Something gave her life meaning, and that meaning became more important to hear than life itself.

If you know what I mean.