Jason Ingersoll is a Navy photographer and was at the Navy Annex when the first explosions were heard at the Pentagon down the hill below. So Jason grabbed his camera and headed down the hill, running and snapping photos along the way. These first pre-collapse photos are at the top of the hill.

03872 Top of hill-lots of smoke - - 03873 Roof of Pentagon-lots of smoke - - 03874 Fires-No fire trucks yet-Traffic stopped - - 03875 Fires-No fire trucks

These are the first pre-collapse Ingersoll photos showing the fires at the Pentagon. As you can see there are no fire trucks at the Pentagon fighting the fires in any of the Ingersoll pre-collapse photos until 03880. The 1st responder Reagan National fire trucks were on the scene at 9:40 or 9:41 according to their report. So all these Ingersoll pre-collapse photos are prior to 9:41.



In this blowup photo the #1 light pole base can be seen above the guardrail. In front of the right headlight of the Cherokee is a red stake we can use as a reference point. Counting guardrail posts to the left starting at the stake equals 5 posts and the light pole base is just to the right of the 5th post and above the guardrail.



Here is another photo of the 30' #1 light pole with the base elevated above the guard rail in relation to Ingersoll on the hillside. This is the famous photo of the drag gouge across the road. Please notice that the taxi was repositioned in front of that overpass wall from the Ingersoll hi-rez photos. Why did they move the taxicab with the broken windshield? Was it undrivable or not? Compare this photo to the hi-rez photos (03876 and 03877) which clearly show the taxicab was past the overpass wall with no light pole through the windshield and could be clearly seen. Why were they moving the taxi?


The next two hi-rez photos show that in less than three minutes after the alleged 757 aircraft crash, the 30' 247 lb light pole is not sticking out of the windshield. There are no fire trucks at the Pentagon yet. Lloyd England and the helpful stranger pulled that heavy 30' long lightpole out of the windshield in less than 3 minutes after Lloyd stopped the car? Sure they did or the 30' 247 lb light pole was never through the windshield in the first place.

In this photo showing the fires at the Pentagon with no fire trucks yet, Lloyd England's Lincoln taxicab can be seen at the left with no light pole sticking out over the hood. Lloyd can be seen faithfully standing in the sun at the back of the taxi as ordered. The white Saturn and Jeep Cherokee government cars have not yet arrived. No #1 light pole base can be seen sticking up above and to the right of the 5th guardrail post from the stake reference point. The light pole base should be seen just to the right of the electrical box. There is no light pole base visible.
03876 No pole through windshield-Still no fire trucks-No #1 base showing above guardrail


In this photo showing the fires at the Pentagon with no fire trucks yet, Lloyd England's Lincoln taxicab can be seen at the left with no light pole sticking out over the hood. Lloyd can be seen faithfully standing in the sun at the back of the taxi as ordered. The white Saturn and Jeep Cherokee government cars have not yet arrived. No #1 light pole base can be seen sticking up above and to the right of the 5th guardrail post from the stake reference point. The light pole base should be to the right of the black pole. There is no light pole base visible.
03877 No pole through windshield-Still no fire trucks-No #1 base showing above guardrail


03878 Onlookers watching the action

The #1 light pole base has arrived. You can see it above and to the right of the 5th guardrail post from the red stake. Still no fire trucks down at the fires and the white Saturn and Jeep Cherokee government cars have arrived on the scene also. All these photos were taken by Jason Ingersoll in the 3 minutes between the initial explosions and the arrival of the Reagan National fire trucks. Perhaps the fire trucks were several minutes later than they reported. Did Lloyd and the helpful stranger remove that 30' 247 lb light pole from his windshield in just 3 or 5 minutes? Of course not. [B]The light pole was never through the windshield and this was just one more lie in the Pentagon saga.[/B]
03879 White Saturn and Jeep Cherokee on scene
In this photo the Cherokee has been moved and the light pole base is clearly visible above the guardrail and 5 posts to the left of our reference point.


Still no fire trucks fighting fires. Road cleared. Nobody in that red vehicle. Federal agents have the scene secured.


03880 Fire trucks finally on scene
In this photo, the fire trucks are fighting the fires, the roof still has not collapsed, and the Federal agents have cleared the road for a photo op of Lloyd standing behind his taxicab in the hot sun.
The taxi has been moved again, away from the overpass wall.

In the first Ingersoll photo 03879 which shows the light pole base above the guardrail and just to the right of the 5th guardrail post to the left of our reference point, we also see that the Feds have the scene blocked in with at least 5 vehicles. The Lincoln taxicab and the big green SUV have the scene blocked from the north and the two walls have the scene blocked from the east and the dark car and the Cherokee have the scene blocked from the south. The Saturn is parked over the infamous #1 light pole base drag mark which extends across the road towards the far wall which borders the closed fast lane.


In another photo, we see the Cherokee is in a different position and the Saturn is parked over the infamous #1 light pole base drag mark.


In this famous photo showing the #1 light pole base drag mark extending across the road towards the far wall which borders the closed fast lane, we see the Saturn is parked at right angles to its previous position. Why are they moving the Lincoln taxicab along the road and why do they keep moving the government cars? If this is not staging a scene, then what is? - - Metcalf photo


Does anyone see a 30' 247 lb lightpole sticking out of the Lincoln windshield in the below two Ingersoll photos? Does anyone doubt that the Lincoln was moved south by the Feds for the staged infamous photo op above?
03876 No pole through windshield-Still no fire trucks-No #1 base showing above guardrail - - 03877 No pole through windshield-Still no fire trucks-No #1 base showing above guardrail

Another Metcalf photo showing the #1 light pole base in front of the right Saturn fender and no fire trucks at the Pentagon yet.
Another Metcalf photo

Another Metcalf photo showing Lloyd and his windshield without a light pole and no fire trucks at the Pentagon yet.
Another Metcalf photo

That pole has been dragged along the ground. It is clear in all the photos posted, as the road surface has a clear fresh drag scratch which starts along way away from the cab, and finishes where the photo shows it to be resting.

So obvious a plant, that the photos show the FBI forgot to think about the marks on the road surface. Ooops, they cocked it up.

Preston, the link to the last pic of the cab, the drag scratch on the road is behind the cab. You can see it in between the gap of the door and the man in the shirt, behind the cab.

edit, just noticed you saying the same as I have done. (note to self, I must stop .......!)

Wow

Great work, SPreston

Thanks Sanders. Needs to be refined. Don't forget the CIT team did much of this. Are we to believe that old man and his imaginary friend pulled that 30' long 247 lb light pole out of his windshield within minutes after it was supposed to have been hurled through his windshield? Lloyd is already standing behind his taxicab in these Ingersoll photos taken several minutes before the Reagan National 1st responder fire team arrived at the fires. These photos were taken prior to 9:41 according to the 1st responder Reagan National timeline quoted below, and there never was a light pole through the windshield. Does anyone think Lloyd and his imaginary friend pulled a light pole out of his windshield within 3 minutes after poor old frightened Lloyd got the car stopped? Where is this imaginary friend anyway? He is gone already? The official fantasy tale (OCT) states that a 757 Flight 77 impacted the Pentagon wall at 9:37 AM. There is no sign of any 757 aircraft near the fires below and there is no sign of a light pole through the windshield just minutes after the 9:37 official impact. This is proof that the light pole scenario is a lie and was staged, because Lloyd and his imaginary friend could not possibly have pulled a 30' long 247 lb light pole out of the windshield in just two or three minutes after Lloyd allegedly skidded his car to a stop. Not believable.
Yet there Lloyd is, standing at the back of the cab like he has been there for a long time. Just following the script?

Click the links to the hi-rez Ingersoll photos. No light pole through the windshield.

In this photo taken several minutes after the alleged 757 impact showing the fires at the Pentagon with no fire trucks yet, Lloyd England's Lincoln taxicab can be seen at the left with no light pole sticking out over the hood. Lloyd can be seen faithfully standing in the sun at the back of the taxi as ordered. The white Saturn and Jeep Cherokee government cars have not yet arrived.
03876 No pole through windshield-Still no fire trucks-No #1 base showing above guardrail

In this photo taken several minutes after the alleged 757 impact showing the fires at the Pentagon with no fire trucks yet, Lloyd England's Lincoln taxicab can be seen at the left with no light pole sticking out over the hood.
03877 No pole through windshield-Still no fire trucks-No #1 base showing above guardrail

LC Forum The Light Poles Were Staged In Advance...not by a plane, explosives, or vortex. thread


How could the 30' long light pole be sticking out to the right in the photo? The light pole allegedly went between the front seats into the back seat. The hole in the windshield is in the center. By my reckoning, the 30' long 247 lb light pole should have been sticking out about 15' in front of the bumper and over the hood. Do you see the light pole sticking out about 15' in front of the car? The base would be on the end sticking out, so it should be easy to spot. I can see the entire hood, but no light pole. Do you really think Lloyd and his imaginary friend already pulled it out within 2 or 3 minutes? By the way, where is the imaginary friend? He left already?

Do you think Lloyd and his imaginary friend had time to pull the light pole out in the 2 or 3 minutes since the 9:37 OCT 757 impact? No? There are no fire trucks there yet and they got there at 9:41. Look at Lloyd standing there behind the car like he has been there for a long time. Do you think that old man had much energy left after that 247 lb pole fell on him? Or is that just another bullshit story? Go ahead, zoom in on Lloyd's taxicab in the hi-rez Ingersoll photos and show us the light pole sticking out 15 feet past the front of the hood. You can't because it is not there. It never was there, because the whole light pole scenario is a fraud. It was staged and we have caught them in a lie.

But you cannot admit that it was a lie can you? Because this entire fraud of Flight 77 hangs on the light pole staging and the OCT south of the Citgo staging. The true North of the Citgo flight path destroys the OCT flight path and the missing light pole destroys the Lloyd taxicab light pole staging.

Here is the taxi windshield. With one end between the seats and into the back seat, do you think the other end was sticking out over the driver's side of the car?
Of course it wasn't. It had to be sticking out over the center of the hood, about 15' past the bumper. But it isn't there is it in the hi-rez photos?

This hole is exactly in the center of the windshield. The smaller end allegedly went between the front seats, and stopped on the back seat without ripping the fabric. How come we cannot see the other end sticking out past the hood? Why is Lloyd already by the rear of the taxicab like he did for hours?

Click the links to the hi-rez Ingersoll photos. No light pole through the windshield.
Where is the light pole 3 minutes after a 757 allegedly knocked it through the windshield? I can see the hood, but alas no light pole.

In this hi-rez photo taken several minutes after the alleged 757 impact showing the fires at the Pentagon with no fire trucks yet, Lloyd England's Lincoln taxicab can be seen at the left with no light pole sticking out over the hood. Lloyd can be seen faithfully standing in the sun at the back of the taxi as ordered. The white Saturn and Jeep Cherokee government cars have not yet arrived.
03876 No pole through windshield-Still no fire trucks

In this hi-rez photo taken several minutes after the alleged 757 impact showing the fires at the Pentagon with no fire trucks yet, Lloyd England's Lincoln taxicab can be seen at the left with no light pole sticking out over the hood.
03877 No pole through windshield-Still no fire trucks

LC Forum The Light Poles Were Staged In Advance...not by a plane, explosives, or vortex. thread


What? Are you bonkers? The entire windshield is intact except for the small hole in the center. Maybe the guy swinging the hammer hit it with his elbow. Or sticking to your OCT fable, maybe poor old Lloyd leaned there on the windshield as he desperately tried to lift his half of the 247 pounds of light pole out of the windshield without scratching his precious hood. Doesn't matter. The hole is still in the center of the windshield, and the end was still in the back seat, and since both front seats are still there, it means the pole was between the seats and in the center of the car. Therefore the light pole base should have been sticking out over the center of the hood 15 feet past the bumper, but it is not in the two Jason Ingersoll hi-rez photos. Right? Or do you have some other silly explanation? Do you see the light pole sticking out of the windshield in these photos taken about 3 minutes after the light pole was supposed to have been hurled like a javelin into this taxi windshield driving south at 40-45 mph? I know you believe that right-side 757 wings are well trained at light pole javelin throws, but doesn't the light pole have to hang around for a while? Why is it missing? Is it because the light pole never was there and the windshield was broken by hand which would explain why the roof and hood were not scratched? And if it never was there, would not that also explain how a 247 lb light pole landing in a seat would not even rip open the seat? We have proven a lie.
I wonder which Secret Service or FBI agent forgot to rip up the back seat with his trusty Boy Scout knife?


I can see the hood, but alas no light pole.

UhhhOhhh. Somebody goofed!!
03876 No pole through windshield-Still no fire trucks
Ooops!! No light pole.
03877 No pole through windshield-Still no fire trucks

LC Forum The Light Poles Were Staged In Advance...not by a plane, explosives, or vortex. thread


Duh! Let me see. Why would they do that? Maybe because since a 757 never hit the Pentagon in the first place, they thought a few well staged slight of hand magicians' tricks and some well placed explosives and some first class lying by the POS mainstream media might convince most people that a 757 had hit the Pentagon. But their trickery wasn't so good after all, was it? That witnessed aircraft flying the north of Citgo flight path kinda hurt them, didn't it? That piece of planted fuselage that had never ever been riveted to an aircraft frame kinda hurt them didn't it? And this light pole through the windshield that never was kinda hurt them, didn't it? And there is a whole lot more that kinda hurt them and more coming soon. Stay tuned. Of course, if everybody was as stupid and loyalist as you, well they would have had it made in the shade, wouldn't they?

LC Forum The Light Poles Were Staged In Advance...not by a plane, explosives, or vortex. thread

PROPOSED
Light pole was never through windshield; the entire Lloyd light pole scenario was staged and a lie.

1. In this sequence of 9 (+ 2 missing) Ingersoll hi-rez photos as he ran down the hill towards the explosions heard at the Pentagon, all were taken prior to the Reagan National 1st responder fire trucks arriving at 9:41 except 03880 #9.

2. In five of the first eight photos (+ the two missing photos) the Reagan National fire trucks have not yet arrived at the Pentagon.

3. Therefore the first eight photos (+ 2 missing) were taken in the four minutes between the official impact time of 9:37 and the Reagan National arrival of 9:41.

4. In photos #5 and #6, the light pole base and light pole cannot be seen extending about 15' out from the center of the hood as Lloyd testified.

5. Lloyd can be seen in photo #5 already standing at parade rest behind his taxi. Therefore the light pole must not still be inside the windshield or Lloyd would not be already back there.

6. If Lloyd and his imaginary friend had hurriedly lifted the pole out of the windshield in the three or so minutes since Lloyd allegedly skidded his cab to a stop, then Lloyd at his age should have been exhausted from the effort and from allegedly having a 247 lb light pole fall on him and should not already be standing back there.

7. Conclusion: It is ridiculous to believe that Lloyd and his imaginary friend could have removed the pole in the three minute time span. Besides, where is this imaginary friend? Where is the light pole?

PROVEN
Light pole was never through windshield; the entire Lloyd light pole scenario was staged.
Because the Federal agents in charge of the light pole event decided for whatever reason to stage and fake the light pole through the windshield, the entire Pentagon attack is suspect and by extension the entire 9-11 attack on America. If the Federal government faked this scene and confiscated the 85+ video tapes which likely showed them faking this light pole fraud, then what other events did they stage and fake?


Jason Ingersoll is a Navy photographer and was at the Navy Annex when the first explosions were heard at the Pentagon down the hill below. So Jason grabbed his camera and headed down the hill, running and snapping photos along the way. These first pre-collapse photos are at the top of the hill.

First 4 Ingersoll photos in sequence
03872 Photo #1 Top of hill-lots of smoke
03873 Photo #2 Roof of Pentagon-lots of smoke
03874 Photo #3 Fires-No fire trucks yet-Traffic stopped
03875 Photo #4 Fires-No fire trucks

These are the first pre-collapse Ingersoll photos showing the fires at the Pentagon. As you can see there are no fire trucks at the Pentagon fighting the fires in any of the Ingersoll pre-collapse photos until 03880. The 1st responder Reagan National fire trucks were on the scene at 9:40 or 9:41 according to their report. So all these Ingersoll pre-collapse photos are prior to 9:41 except for 03880.



Ingersoll photo taken from hi-rez photo #5
Click the links to the hi-rez Ingersoll photos. No light pole through the windshield. The light pole was 30' long and allegedly through the center of the windshield and between the front seats and resting on the back seat without tearing the fabric. Of course that is preposterous that a 247 lb light pole could possibly be hurled into the back seat of a 40-45 mph car without damaging the back seat. Who would believe such a fairy tale? The 30' long light pole was centered in the car and the base end should be seen sticking out over the center of the hood about 15', which is exactly where Lloyd testified it was. But it is not there, is it? How was it removed in just 2 or 3 minutes time? Lloyd can be seen already obediently standing behind his car. Vehicles appear to be driving by.
Where is the light pole 3 minutes after a 757 allegedly knocked it through the windshield? I can see the hood, but alas no light pole.


Ingersoll hi-rez photo #5
In this hi-rez photo taken several minutes after the alleged 757 impact showing the fires at the Pentagon with no fire trucks yet, Lloyd England's Lincoln taxicab can be seen at the left with no light pole sticking out over the hood. Lloyd can be seen faithfully standing in the sun at the back of the taxi as ordered. The white Saturn and Jeep Cherokee government cars have not yet arrived. Vehicles appear to be driving by.
03876 No pole through windshield-Still no fire trucks

Ingersoll photo #6
In this hi-rez photo taken several minutes after the alleged 757 impact showing the fires at the Pentagon with no fire trucks yet, Lloyd England's Lincoln taxicab can be seen at the left with no light pole sticking out over the hood.
03877 No pole through windshield-Still no fire trucks

Ingersoll photo #7
03878 Spectators

Ingersoll photo #8
The white Saturn, Cherokee, big dark SUV and the dark sedan have arrived to block in the scene. No fire trucks yet and the pole base can be seen
03879 No fire trucks at the Pentagon yet

Ingersoll photo #?
This hi-rez photo seems to be missing in action. No fire trucks at the Pentagon. The Federal agent has the scene under control.


Ingersoll photo #?
This hi-rez photo seems to be missing in action also. The light pole base can be seen at the right fender of the Saturn. Lloyd and the Federal agent controlling
the scene have apparently spotted Jason Ingersoll running down the hill with his camera. Perhaps that has something to do with this photo becoming MIA.



Ingersoll photo #9
The Reagan National fire trucks have finally arrived 4 minutes after the official 757 impact time of 9:37
03880 Time is after 9:41 fire trucks have arrived at Pentagon

The taxi which never had a light pole
Here is the taxi windshield. With one end between the seats and into the back seat, and sticking out through the center of the windshield, the alleged light pole should have been easily seen in photos #5 and #6 just where Lloyd testified it should be. In the center of the hood. It had to be sticking out over the hood, about 15' past the bumper. But it isn't there in the hi-rez photos, is it?


This hole is exactly in the center of the windshield. The smaller end allegedly went between the front seats, and stopped on the back seat without ripping the fabric. Preposterous. That pole weighed 247 lbs and the taxi was allegedly moving south on the road at at 40-45 mph according to Lloyd. How could it not rip the seats. That is a 40-45 mph collision. The pole should have pierced through the seat and the gas tank. But it did not, did it? How come we cannot see the base end sticking out 15' past the hood in photos #5 and #6? Why is Lloyd already by the rear of the taxicab like he stood there for apparently hours? Because there was never ever a light pole through the windshield. It is a Federal government lie.


Lloyd was still standing out there long after the road was evacuated.

Lloyd England's Critical Account Revisited. The research is conclusive.LC Forum thread

The taxi which never had a light pole

Thank you Jack. No Lloyd does not seem like a bad guy, especially in these interviews. But his honesty and version of the evidence does not fit well with the actual evidence. Has Lloyd been subjected to some kind of hypnosis training courtesy of his FBI wife and the Feds? It would be great to get Lloyd lined up with a hypnosis expert, on our side and the side of the American people of course, and find out what tale really resides inside Lloyd's memory and separate the factual memories from the planted memories. Assuming of course that is what has happened with Lloyd and I can think of no other explanation, because Lloyd indeed seems like a good guy and a person who would not betray anyone.

Lloyd interviewed at his house to clear up this detail straight from the horse's mouth. You can see the interview here:
Lloyd interview

If that's not enough you can listen to a pre-interview done in Lloyd's living room before Lloyd was video-taped.
Listen to pre-interview here

He absolutely claims it was the long over 30 foot long piece of the pole that allegedly speared his windshield. Not only that but he claims he came to a stop sideways on the road with the HEAVY end of the pole STILL sticking out of his windshield over the hood of his car!

Lloyd England drew this image to illustrate what he remembered.


Since Lloyd in his illustration has placed the small end of the 30' long pole in the back seat and since both front seats are still located in their proper positions and since the hole is in the center of the windshield, then the end of the light pole has to be in the center of the back seat. Therefore since the alignment of the light pole is center - center - center, the logical conclusion is the outer extremity or approximately 20' portion would be exiting the windshield and aligning with the center of the hood and the heavier base end sticking out from the center of the hood about 15' past the bumper. But this heavier end cannot be seen at all only 2-3 minutes after it's 247 lb mass was allegedly hurled into the Lincoln allegedly driving south down the roadway at 40-45 mph. Where has this light pole disappeared to in only 2-3 minutes according to the time frame proven by the Reagan National reports posted above? Has the heavy light pole been removed by Lloyd and his imaginary friend in only 2-3 minutes time, or was it never through the windshield at any time?

No light pole visible sticking out past the center of the hood

No light pole visible sticking out past the center of the hood
03876 No pole through windshield-Still no fire trucks

No light pole visible sticking out past the center of the hood
03877 No pole through windshield-Still no fire trucks


PROVEN: Light pole was never through windshield; the entire Lloyd light pole scenario was staged.
Go on; save these two hi-rez photos to your hard drive and zoom in on the windshield and hood of the taxi to your heart's content. There is no light pole there and Lloyd is already standing at parade rest at the back bumper, only 2-3 minutes afte the light pole allegedly was hurled at the car windshield. We have proven in these Ingersoll pre-collapse photos taken within 4 minutes of the Reagan National fire truck arrivals at 9:41, that the 30' long light pole allegedly stuck through the windshield would have had to be sticking out past the center of the hood about 15' and according to Lloyd's drawing extending up at an angle from the ground and should have been clearly visible in these two Ingersoll photos. But it was NOT visible at at, was it? It really could not have ever been through the windshield, could it? There was not enough time, was there? So the windshield must have been broken sometime prior to the Ingersoll photos and the Lincoln staged there and the light pole placed there from it's hiding place at some time by the Federal agents which blocked the scene with their vehicles. Correct?

Because the Federal agents in charge of the light pole event decided for whatever reason to stage and fake the light pole through the windshield, the entire Pentagon attack is suspect and by extension the entire 9-11 attack on America. If the Federal government faked this scene and confiscated the 85+ video tapes which likely showed them faking this light pole fraud, then what other events did they stage and fake?

Here is the taxi windshield. With one end between the seats and into the back seat, and sticking out through the center of the windshield, the alleged light pole should have been easily seen in photos #5 and #6 just where Lloyd testified it should be. In the center of the hood. It had to be sticking out over the hood, about 15' past the bumper. But it isn't there in the hi-rez photos, is it?


This hole is exactly in the center of the windshield. The smaller end allegedly went between the front seats, and stopped on the back seat without ripping the fabric. Preposterous. That pole weighed 247 lbs and the taxi was allegedly moving south on the road at at 40-45 mph according to Lloyd. How could it not rip the seats. That is a 40-45 mph collision. The pole should have pierced through the seat and the gas tank. But it did not, did it? How come we cannot see the base end sticking out 15' past the hood in photos #5 and #6? Why is Lloyd already by the rear of the taxicab like he stood there for apparently hours? Because there was never ever a light pole through the windshield. It is a Federal government lie.

LC Forum Lloyd England's Critical Account Revisited. The research is conclusive. thread

Now for the coup de grace. A merciful deathblow to your light pole fantasy.


In this sequence of 12 Jason Ingersoll photos (3 hi-rez missing), we have Navy photographer Ingersoll running down the hill towards the Pentagon fires snapping photos along the way and snapping all 12 in a time span of 4 minutes, derived from the Reagon National official arrival time of 9:41 and the Bush Regime official OCT 757 impact time of 9:37. Until the 12th photo, no fire trucks have arrived at the Pentagon. Thus an excellent tool for timing the light pole staging.

The Light pole is not visible in photos #5 (#5 smaller version) and #6 (#6 smaller version). However, in later Ingersoll photos, the light pole base shows up just above the guardrail. But not once does any Ingersoll photo show Lloyd England and his imaginary friend removing the light pole from the windshield. Go ahead, look through all the Ingersoll hi-rez photos posted above and you will not find any activity with Lloyd and his imaginary friend removing anything. The light pole could not possibly have been inside the windshield because all of Ingersoll's photos were taken in a 4 minute time span and the light pole could not possibly have been removed from the windshield in between photos. Correct? Either the light pole was already planted on the pavement beyond the guard rail before the impact time of 9:37 or the Federal agents dragged the light pole over from its hiding spot in between Ingersoll photos. Does anyone have an alternate explanation? Don't you J R E F govt loyalists and BushBots and other NeoCON shills and trolls wish you had been born with just the tiniest bit of common sense and deductive reasoning?
Or is it just honesty and a true sense of justice for 3000 murdered fellow Americans which are the missing ingredients?

Ingersoll photo #8
The white Saturn, Cherokee, big dark SUV and the dark sedan have arrived to block in the scene.
No fire trucks yet and the pole base can be seen in line with the Saturn right fender.
03879 No fire trucks at the Pentagon yet


Ingersoll photo #?
This hi-rez photo seems to be missing in action. No fire trucks at the Pentagon.
The Federal agent has the scene under control.


Ingersoll photo #?
This hi-rez photo seems to be missing in action also. The agents are controlling the scene. Still no fire trucks at the fires caused by the explosions which were likely inside the construction trailers and generator.


Ingersoll photo #?
This hi-rez photo seems to be missing in action also. The light pole base can be seen at the right fender of the Saturn. Lloyd and the Federal agent controlling
the scene have apparently spotted Jason Ingersoll running down the hill with his camera. Perhaps that has something to do with these 3 photos becoming MIA.

Pole base visible

Ooops!! I think I have created some hard feelings over there. I confess I have been a painful thorn (pain in the ass?) in their side.
Now I feel a bit guilty. How are they ever going to fit all this contradictory stuff into their new LC flick? I see now why everybody wanted to pretend those doggone Reagan National 1st responder fire trucks arriving at 9:41 only 4 minutes after the OCT official 757 impact time of 9:37, never existed at all. Those J R E F govt loyalists and all the other shills and trolls slithering onto the LC Forum, really seem to hate Jason Ingersoll and his embarrassing photos taken in about 4 minutes time while running down the hillside towards the burning Pentagon fires and no fire trucks there yet.
I just cannot imagine why Mr Jason Ingersoll and his camera did not become 'victims' of Hani Hanjour also.
Oh, I forgot; these LC Forum admins really seem to hate the CIT team and PFT also. That can only be a good thing. Right?

Gee, I just felt it necessary to include the four threads among my replies because each thread contained so much valuable information. Is that really spamming? Well, they had locked most of Craig's and Aldo's other threads already anyway, so these were just two they missed which I got a lot of use out of for a while. Maybe Domenick can needle them for a while. They deserve it.
Shoot. There were 3 or 4 more light pole threads which I wanted to include also. That would probably be a bad idea after my 14 day suspension.



Not locked yet
What Knocked Down The Light Poles at the Pentagon on 9/11?

Thread locked 11-5-07 12:33 PM but not deleted yet. Of course if they are deleted, they have been posted and linked here to PFT
for one more nail in their 'Are They Really 911 Truthers over there at Loose Change?' coffin.
Lloyd England's Critical Account Revisited. The research is conclusive. Thread starter: Craig Ranke CIT

Thread locked 11-5-07 12:33 PM but not deleted yet
Ingersol Photos Document 1st Moments After Attack....and the staging of light pole one. Thread starter: Craig Ranke CIT

Not locked yet. Not banned permanently yet either. Things are looking up.
The Light Poles Were Staged In Advance...not by a plane, explosives, or vortex.

hey == does someone have the foto of the INSIDE of lloyd's cab, again?

what was on the front seat, besides Icke's book?

is there clear and visible windshield damage in this photo (hard to ascertain)

see minute 7:12 of thePentaCon.com video of lloyd --

i note also from video another heavy piece of metal referred to in the black/white photos as "the small piece"

The First Known Accomplice? (featuring Lloyd England)



Drawing by Lloyd England

No light pole visible sticking out past the center of the hood

No light pole visible sticking out past the center of the hood
03876 No pole through windshield-Still no fire trucks

I spent time googling, downloading and watching dozens of (semi-retarded)
windshield bashing videos.

The pattern of damage to a windshield with safety glass (plastic laminate?) is nearly the same every time. a body landing on the glass (hit by car) will punch a spiderweb pattern -- which radiates out in circles from the area with greatest or sharpest impact.

that makes a wide, 'messy' breakage pattern.

an impact with a tire iron or other baseball bat-like object creates a much smalller spidewebbed circle. however, if you keep smashing in the same area, the overlapping spiderwebs of glass collapse into fragments, that drop in whole pieces.

thankfully, a whole bunch of skateboarding, jack-ass, bitter ex-boyfriends have put up countless videos of intentional windshield destruction. note that it takes SEVERAL hard smashes with a baseball bat-sized object to create that "whited-out" glass look.

If you wished to try it yourself, go to a junkyard, and pay the price of a scrapped windshield or car, to smash one in yourself, and YouTube the experiment.

Now, what would the sharp (small end) or the wide (base end) of a light pole that 'punctured' a windshield look like?>

Google 'windshield' and light pole and you find this:




Different pole, different van, different windshield, yes, I hear your futile protest.

what is EXTREMELY interesting is how the pole enters with a very clean penetration -0- and limited fracturing of the glass surrounding the van.


now, let's revisit Lloyd's windshield (preston, roll the Pic series again from Lloyd's towed taxi...)....

how many independent circled spiderweb sites do you see?
does this look more like the Light Pole example photo, or the Jack-ass kids smashing a windshield?

Note that I am not accusing Mr England of anything other than having a piss-poor memory, and acting confused during day of 9/11. Forgivable- it was a confusing day! (still is...)

I have no idea what object might have been used to damage the windshield, if indeed it was done intentionally by human hands. -- but if it were up to me, I would have used the SMALL bat-sized metal part of the Light Pole Truss seen on the home page of ThePentacon.com

http://thepentacon.com

Not to accuse lloyd of lying. he probably remembers pulling the pole off, the stranger... the van.

But I would now like to find out the names &IDs and affiliation of the TWO men next to lloyd's cab -- actually three -- the white man in red tie, the black man in short sleeved white shirt (not lloyd!!) and the white man in the blue shirt near the Saturn Gov't vehicle.

Metcalf photo

Inside view

Other broken windshield showing crack pattern


Three Feds controlling the scene
Metcalf photo

Ingersoll photo
The two Feds have apparently just noticed Jason Ingersoll running down the hillside towards them snapping photos and that guy looking through the bushes is
not Lloyd. Another unwelcome interloper into a staged scene just like those doggone Reagan National fire trucks showing up at 9:41 uninvited.

Metcalf photo

The alleged light pole hurler.

The alternate North of the Citgo aircraft flying the real flight path in the background


In this computer simulation video produced by Bush Regime OCT defenders Integrated Consultants Inc, the #1 light pole is knocked straight ahead by the right wing and allegedly into the taxicab windshield. But the taxicab is not located under the aircraft. The taxicab is located north of the aircraft coming south down the roadway at 40-45 mph (or about 66 feet per second) and allegedly took 40' to stop (less than a second? Unlikely. More likely about 100' or about 2-3 seconds to stop since Lincolns were known for poor braking ability-Stopping Distance Calculation) after the light pole allegedly crashed through the windshield into the back seat.
911 Case Study: Pentagon Flight 77

Can anyone imagine the swept back 757 right wing somehow hurling the #1 light pole like a javelin to the north 100 feet or so (about 38' north of the left wing tip), past the two massive jet washes and the fuselage into the windshield of the 40-45 mph taxicab coming south down the roadway? No? The light pole should have been clipped to the south instead? Then somehow, that 247 lb javelin allegedly clipped to the north was supposed to stop the momentum of its 40-45 mph windshield collision, in the backseat without tearing the fabric? No? Ridiculous? Why? Because it is an impossible situation? Because it never happened?

Actual locations of light poles before removal

Approximate locations of where light poles allegedly ended up. Red dot is base location.

Swept-back 757 wing leading edge


Note: there is no possible way the 13' 2" 757 fuselage height could have passed between the cable spools and the 13' height above ground level 2nd story floor slab as shown in the video, without destroying the cable spools. Not even the smallest 4' cable spool could have fit between the fuselage belly fuel tank and the ground. Actually the left wing engine needed to be below ground level to fulfill the requirements and the cable spools destroyed. But they were not, were they?
Arrogant Deception - Or an Attempt to Expose a Cover-up?

Undamaged unmelted polyurethane cable spools

http://youtube.com/watch?v=HdoJASdLg_A

Sorry, guys -- we was all wrong -- check out minute 2:00 onwards in this LC final Cut trailer....

You can clearly see Lloyd's cab getting struck by a pole, as he brakes to a crazy stop, right in front of the pole, that he did not hit.

(Simulation credit, Purdue University)

OMG, are you serious, who made this video??




In this oh so brief unsourced clip, the poles on are the ground before the 'cab' even gets there.

I've held my opinion to myself so far, but this is kind of ridiculous.

Okay, double post to myself.
If you really click pause through that brief 5 second bull clip, you can see the nonsense they are really spewing with this video.

Again, who made this crap?

Pole 1 drops dead on the ground right under the plane
Pole 2 is brushed, and the light fixture part (I assume) going into Loyds cabs, then the rest of Pole 2 self destructs and falls into the grass.

It's insane!!

Guys, lets wait till the final product is released prior to criticism. Lets not be like others who have made it their mission to attack (no doubt in attempts to neutralize) prior to the information being released in full.

OMFG, Triple post to myself.

That is exactly what they are showing with this crap.
They are claiming that the light fixture extension of Pole 2 is what hit Loylds cab. Pole1 just happned to be where he stopped.

Then Pole 2 fells backwards into the grass.

Except, they don't show it right. Get this. There are TWO Fixtures from Pole 2. One goes into Loyals cab, the other bounces onward toward the median.

Here is the stupendess time warped bs they are showing.

They show this picture first, but it is actuall after realtime the next picture, but here you can clearly see the Fixture from Pole2 going off towards Loyals cab.


Previous to that realtime but the next view, here is the incredible touch that makes all this happen


Now, we see the Fixture in mid air headed right for the poor Cab


And Contact, the Cab seen around the world is created.


EXCEPT, OOPPS!!!
They show TWO Fixtures, one miracles itself into the Loyal Cab while the other bounces off the median. Damn that 3D programmer...


And you end up with this COMPLETE UNREALITY SHOT of the Loyal Cab with the POLE2 FIXTURE stuck in it's windows.


Believe it. Because Dylan and Russel say it's so.
No sources were harmed or credited during the production of this video in order to get your loose change.

It's disinfo and Dylan even admitted it to Dom at the forum.

Wait until you see the interview.

He edited out all of the dubious details.

They are protecting Lloyd by changing his story for him and refusing to report what he he not only said to us but to the Survivor Fund Project, NBC, and anyone else he told the story to.

Guys,

Thread closed.

Lets wait till the full presentation before criticism please. Lets make sure we have all the information instead of being like those who attacked CIT for months prior to releasing their analysis.


(if any admin would like to reopen the thread for more comments.. i wont be offended. However i do feel we should wait for full release instead of falling to the level others have in the past, such as those who attacked CIT for months prior to publishing their information)

I reopen this thread b/c really it's not about LCFC in total. It about what we see right here.

Fair enough UT.... your call..

Plus in fairness.....

I HAVE seen it.

Thanks guys. I asked Rob to delete my objection thread and will not even mention the trailer until it is deemed appropriate.

SPreston

Here is the real kicker.......


This entire speculated scenario of the top of light pole #2 being what pierced the windshield was first postulated by ALDO at the old LC forum in his debate with Russell about Lloyd back in July 2006 BEFORE we interviewed Lloyd.

He merely suggested it within the course of discussing all possibilities and then Russell quickly grabbed on to the concept apparently to never let go.







Then we all went and talked with Lloyd and he gave us his real story first hand.


Naturally it didn't make sense so Dylan chose to cover up these fatal contradictions and go back to Aldo's old assertion from back before we ever talked to Lloyd.

And he even admits it:



So these are not "accusations" on our part.

We are merely reporting the facts that have been publicly admitted for the record.

The most critical evidence in regards to a 757 impact or lack of it has been deliberately misrepresented by Dylan because it in essence proves 9/11 was an inside job.

lol... true... thanks for reminding me... i feel better now...

As you were...

To suggest the car skidded as far as he depicts in this deceptive animation without leaving huge black long skid marks on the road is blatantly preposterous.

After reading the exchange between Dylan and Dom (Terrorcell)... it appears Dylan has taken it upon himself (with the influence of some other guy named Russ?) to change the actual statements of an eyewitness in order to fit a theory of impact? Do i have this correct? Dylan actually disregarded eyewitness statements to mold his "reality"? Seems rather blatant .. no?

Plus Dylan claims he was going to depict the small piece still sticking out of the windshield but that it was an "error" and he didn't want to spend the money to fix it.

Well the damage to the windshield is clearly not consistent with a small skinny piece of the pole sticking out of it anyway:




Plus the interior damage is more significant than we could expect in such a scenario because the dash was destroyed and the seat back was off the hinge:





Obviously they tried to simulate a larger pole with the interior damage.

I guess they simply didn't have the time to create significant enough damage to the exterior.

These fatal contradictions prove a fabrication/deception but Dylan chose to use them to support the official story based on Russell Pickering's recomendation and IN SPITE of the rock solid north side evidence proving the plane wasn't anywhere near pole one to begin with.

There is no avoiding this even if he didn't admit it.

But yes.....he admitted it.

This is unbelivenble.

The pole story has always...always been the key part in the taxi driver story. He has even explain it in detail 2-3 times. This is HIS story. Hallo !

But now it is all changed to...make it more "realistic" and to fit "someones theory" about what happened.

And furthermore, imo, it makes another obvious problem. If one accept this... then did the pole 1 create no problem when it fell on the road ? Hit no car ? or was it no problem for the other cars when suddenly a huge pole fell on the road ? No wittness mentions the pole 1 ...except the taxi driver. This is the only pole wich (according to the official story) fell on the road. The "pole went through taxi window" is a big part of the official story.

This is completely absurd.

Not only the complete fabrication, but just where is this supposed 2nd Pole2 Fixture in all the pictures?

I can't believe they went with this BS. And it is all clearly aimed at supporting the official story. Complete DisInfo.

The Pole2 Fixture impact makes zero sense and has no support from any of the evidence. Physical and testimony.

Video: News4 reporter Tony Dorsey interviews Lloyd England - April 25, 2006




The First Known Accomplice? (featuring Lloyd England)



LCFC Loose Change Final Cut trailer. High Quality!

Rob or other Admin --
I posted the LCFC trailer with the sarcastic comment. maybe it does belong in it's own thread

back to OP -- the LLoyd England Buick Cab Windshield Destruction

As hard as it is for me to wrap my head around, I have given up trying to explain away Lloyd's windshield damage as being cauesd by his given reason in interview, the light pole smash.

Note that the only person to give this story is lloyd himself. no independent corroboration or photo evidence of a pole sticking through windshield.

option #1
=you believe lloyd at his word, and come up with miracle physics for the spearing of seat w. no hood damage, the levering the pole out with silent stranger.

option #2
you call "shenanigans" on lloyd -- even if he really believes his own interview story, something physically does not add up.

if you pick option 2, then how did the damage to windshield occur?

was his car like that already when he drove onto Rt 27?
did it happen during/after the Pentagon fire/explosion/plane incident -- CAUSED by the plane/explosion/ fire?

did it happen as a cause of human agency? lloyd or someone near his car smashing it with a blunt object?

I don't know.

But i think it is worth scrutinizing the actual windshield damage pattersn and comparing it to known causes of damage -- such as by light poles ( see the van JPG) or baseball bat (see Big Lebowski, or google videos) --

My conclusion (personally) is that there are multiple impact sites on the windshield, including one weak impact in upper left corner (passenger side) ...

Preston, roll the photo damage again to get back OP...

===========As he made his way on foot up Route 395, he met a man who had been working at the Pentagon. Walking side by side they found a dollar bill lying in the road. They picked it up, tore it in half, each signed one half and traded with each other. Parting ways each took half of a torn dollar with a stranger’s name on it. Lloyde still keeps this tangible reminder of his experience on 9/11.==============

what is the name of the man that signed lloyd's torn dollar bill?

I love this story -- it is that "human interest" angle that makes everything else so believeable....

The guy who signed it was a Marc Vandemere or something like that.

Remember Jack. The plane DID NOT hit ANY light poles. So NOTHING from a light pole caused the damage to his windshield.

Remember Jack. The plane DID NOT hit ANY light poles. So NOTHING from a light pole caused the damage to his windshield. +++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++

I understand your point. but i am being cautious in interpretation so that others can understand the pattern of logic. I know you are 100% convinced, but CIT being convinced is not what helps others "get it" --


technicality:

IF in fact ANY PART of ANY LIGHT POLE crashed through lloyd's windshield, caused by plane, or whatever, it did not cause the TOTALITY of the damage observed to llloyds windshield,

especially the small impact in the upper left corner.

SO??

what caused the damage to lloyd's windshield, if not the light pole?

Option 1: human hands, swinging some basball-bat like object
-- possible instrument #1 -- the "Club" looking metal thing on lloyd's seat?
possible instrumnet #2 -- the 5ft "small part" of the light pole visible here:

http://thepentacon.com


Option 2: some other blunt object that did not appear in a photograph.

Option 3: lloyd's window was pre-broken, and he drove up like that.


++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++

I admit each of the above has problems (would witnesses notice some guy bashing in lloyd;s windscreen? were they well-shielded from view? was Rt 27 southbound traffic that controlled?)

but if you decide that the lightpole didnt break the windshield, there HAS to be another cause....

So we need to find alternative explanations for something that did not happen?

Jack, it is not about us being convinced. The plane did not hit any light poles. There no consistent amoutn of evidence that suggests ANYTHING hit Lloyd's windshield. The fact remains that the interior damage tries to simulate a large pole. The hood ruins that.

Measure the light poles against the north side flight path, jack. They don't reach. Nothing hit poles. No poles were knocked down. No one saw anything hit Lloyd.

Nothing hit his cab but a louisville slugger, some pliers, a screwdriver and a bit of elbow grease.

I would agree strongly that that damage is ALLEGED to be a pole, but the evidence is circumstantial at best.

No other witnesses. no video evidenc. Just a pole laying next to Lloyd's car , his testimony.

-----------------------------

Baseball bat?
the "club?"
that 40lb short piece of light pole?

although no one admits to bashing in Lloyd's windshield, there are two guys in ties and white shirts that need to be questioned....

Remember Jack. The plane DID NOT hit ANY light poles.
That's obvious.


So NOTHING from a light pole caused the damage to his windshield.
I may have missed some of your research, Marquis, but do we allready know, how and when the damn light poles were actually brought down???

Maybe his car was really hit by a piece of the light pole, brought down simultaneousely with the Pentagon explosion?


BTW I agree with Rob. Let's not comment on this LC-piece of disinfo until its full presentation.
There's time enough to ask questions THEN, i.e. who sponsored the Million $ and who exactly is Tim Spark.

We know it was after May 2000 as this photo illustrates:



You can see them on the bridge.

Zap, there is NOTHING that supports the poles coming down as a result of or simultaneously with the explosion. The placing of the poles indicates directional simulated force TOWARDS the Pentagon.

The light poles line up with the south side flight path. The south side flight path is the official flight path that is REQUIRED for the plane to enter the building on the first floor. This same flight path is what makes the low and level approach shown in the surveillance video possible. This same fabricated flight path is outlined in the ASCE report as described by two Pentagon "renovation" "workers".

The official story was that the poles were clipped by the plane.

Do you understand that Lloyd has had this story about the long pole in his windshield since day one?

Do you understand that the interior damage (damaged dashboard & passenger seatback off the hinge) is SUPPOSED TO reflect a large pole coming through and into the back seat, yet the hood contradicts it?

There are no witnesses corroborating and CONFIRMING ANYTHING hitting his cab.

Thanks for your answer and the photo.

I must admit, I had to go back again to perfectly understand, why Lloyd's "long pole in the windshield" - story is impossible.
The important thing is, that the whole light pole story was fabricated, and of course my guess about WHEN the lightpoles have been brought down and HOW was based on pure speculation.
It would anyway be interesting to know.

The light pole downings are instrumental to the south-side flight path.

However, CIT's dogged interviewing has produced at least 4 witnesses that contradict that flight path, and establish a case for a north-side flight path.

for every witness there is an equal and opposite counter-witness, and the debate over who is lying, who is exaggerating, distorting, or telling truth goes round and round.

the physical evidence thus counts for a lot. the light poles & lloyd's cab damage have been historically hailed as key physical evidence for the bare-above-ground approach of AA77 into the Pentagon's E ring facade.

However, if the light poles were not struck by the plane, and lloyd's cab was not struck by a light pole (which was clipped by plane) -- -

then a huge part of the south-side flight path argument crumbles.

----------------------------------------------

Lloyd's windshield spearing (alleged) incident
-- if true, then...

1) lloyd got very very unlucky - the spear end of the pole could have easily hurt or killed him, if only a few inches away

2) lloyd's cab got very lucky, in terms of damage -- the heavy pole harmed only the windshield, dashboard, and seat (does the dash look ripped up?)

3) lloyd, while driving along at 40-50mph, had his cab speared with a pole, and while he "rassled with stopping the cab, swerving" -- -the whole time, with the pole sticking out from his car over the hood, the heavy (240 lb) metal pole did not swing side to side, making contact with the "A" pillars of his cab, nor crushing lloyd's upper body.

lloyd then came to rest (skidding) and the pole did not have it's own independent momentum, which would naturally cause it to want to continue in the speed and direction it had picked up (40 mph decelerating) --


imagine trying to do a simple experiment where you re-create the dynamics, in a way.

take a an old buick. smash a long, heavy, curving metal pole through the windshield.

now get going 40-50mph. then, while swerving right and left, brake hard, skidding to a stop.

does the metal pole stay put? is it held in place by the broken windshield?
does it go flying back out of your card as you brake to a hard stop?
does it nick, scratch, scrape or dent your hood in the process?



points to ponder.

All,
I attended the premier of LCFC in London along with about 30 other persons.
Its a bloody good film which cuts out all the duboius remarks made in LC 1 &2.

There ARE naturally omissions which I personally think are important but you cannot please everyone.

However its a good, tight film which leave little margin for doubt; its designed to be much more like "Press For Truth" than most films.

Yes they should have put in some more credits etc..but if you have not seen it in full its a big mistake to call it anything other than good work.

Lets remember that internal politics are really not crucial here; an annoyance perhaps but thats not why we`re here is it!....

Lets support this and get on with the task in hand. Its down to people like Rob to make specialist films like Pandoras Box that will deal with all the technical details about the flights. LC is a different franchise, different goals and aims. In that they suceeded admirably.

Lets thank the lord they didnt stuck in a whole load of Beam Weapon stuff!!!!!

THAT would be disifo that I would be inclinded to cause a sh*t stirr over.

Calum